IS AMERICA A BULLY?

@Finn dAbuzz,

Okay to all three, Finn.

0 Replies

@gungasnake,

gungasnake wrote:

The picture got worse after the 19'th century. So long as the U.S. was merely acting in its own interests, the damage to other countries was minimal. The problems arise when the U.S. has to deal with really big problems like the cold war and the communist empire, acts as an agent of "New World Order(TM)" ideals (Kosovo) or international banking cartels (Libya 2011).

How so in Kosovo? Serbia was engaged in an ethnic cleansing of the ethnic Albanians. People were being executed in large groups in public squares - old people, young people, lives ended without mercy. We begged them to stop over and over before we took action, and even then, our action was bombing structures to apply pressure. We didn't want their land. We wanted them to stop the genocide and we asked nicely first.

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

I think you are just guessing, Frank.

Nothing against you. It's a common human trait.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

So you default to name-calling. You're a pathetic case, Frank. You are also ignorant.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

Slavery was abolished by the 13th Amendment in December, 1865. That's a lot less than 30 years.

You're splitting hairs as always.

Quote:

The Slavery Abolition Act 1833 (citation 3 & 4 Will. IV c. 73) was an 1833 Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom abolishing slavery throughout the British Empire (with the exceptions "of the Territories in the Possession of the East India Company," the "Island of Ceylon," and "the Island of Saint Helena"; the exceptions were eliminated in 1843).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_Abolition_Act_1833

Here's the maths 1865 - 1833 = 32, which I'll think you'll find is more than 30. Even taking into account the exceptions, big business was a problem even then, it's still more than twenty years. 1865 - 1843 = 22. I wouldn't say 22 was a lot less than 30, but then again you know everything.

I'll let you go off on another rant despite the fact that we've basically said the same thing, one imperialist is as bad as another, be that imperialist British, American Spanish or whatever.

One thing you and Frank seem to have avoided in your dirty talking is that if the British Empire was such an awful institution that was unremittingly evil, why is the Commonwealth such a thriving institution to today?

3 Replies

@izzythepush,

So the entire issue of the coolies just shot right over your head, huh? You didn't watch the documentary, and you didn't even do a web search on the coolies.

As for splitting hairs, this is from the Wikipedia article on the abolition of slavery in Britain:

Quote:

Slavery was officially abolished in most of the British Empire on 1 August 1834. In practical terms, only slaves below the age of six were freed in the colonies. Former slaves over the age of six were redesignated as "apprentices", and their servitude was abolished in two stages; the first set of apprenticeships came to an end on 1 August 1838, while the final apprenticeships were scheduled to cease on 1 August 1840.

It was not quite as cut and dried as you make it out to be. Of course, the important objection to this claim of yours is the manner in which the slavery of blacks of African descent was replaced by the importation of coolies from India. You really need to educate yourself on the history of your own nation.

I can't speak for Frank, and any attempt of anyone to do that would be an exercise in futility. For my part, i will just point out that at no time have i characterized the "British Empire" as "an awful institution that was unremittingly evil," That's a straw man fallacy, which is probably as good as it's ever going to get with you.

You continue to try to take a high moral tone. Your nation's history doesn't support your position.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

I'm not trying to strike any high moral tone. I've argued for International Socialism, you're the one embroiled in petty nationalism.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

You're hilarious. You make a post in which you attempt to suggest that the British Empire was morally superior because it abolished slavery 30 years before the United States. Leaving aside that that is bullshit, that was clearly an attempt to claim a high moral tone, which is something you do all the time with regard to some bizarre United States versus Britain dialogue you seem to have running in your head. Vague statements about "International Socialism" [sic] don't change that. I'm not embroiled in "petty nationalism." This thread is about the behavior of the United States. You can't sit still for that without trying to drag England into the discussion, and hold it up as a morally superior place. When contradicted or criticized, you jump immediately to hysteria and beginning slinging around wild accusations, none of which you can substantiate. Quote the post in which i claimed that the British Empire was "an awful institution that was unremittingly evil," Quote the post in which Frank said that the British Empire was "an awful institution that was unremittingly evil," You won't be able to do that, because it never happened. You're just a silly little troll trying to make this about yourself and your silly little country. It's not about you and it's not about England.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

I never claimed any such thing. I just pointed out that 19th Century American imperialists were no better than 19th Century British ones and used slavery as an example.

You're the one with too much time on your hands. Why do you think you stay up all night arguing with strangers on the internet? Could it be you're trying to make up for something.

Quote:

You're hilarious.

Thanks for noticing, I thought a lot of my jokes had shot over your head. Rest assured nobody will ever accuse you of such. You need to move on from puns, try repeating what someone has just said but in a silly voice. That's the next step.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

You're jokes are pathetic, it's when you attempt to be serious that you're hilarious. I don't sit up all night. I frequently get up in the middle of the night because the boy dog is 17 years old, and like all old men, he has to go pee in the middle of the night. I am more than happy to accommodate him.

No one was bad-mouthing the British Empire. You weren't jumping in to defend that empire, you jumped in to take a high moral tone. You do it all the time. When you say silly sh*t such as "we've come to terms with our colonial past," you're implying, once again, a higher morality. This thread isn't about the British, for as much as you would like to make that the subject. You're a troll, and all you've been doing is trolling this thread.

Clown

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

In a couple of threads recently, I’ve noticed the growing trend to demean, or more exactly "to demonize", the United States as much as possible…to portray it as a bully…as an intrusive spy…as “the big guy on the block" constantly pushing other people around and intruding into their lives.

I want to acknowledge that the garbage being thrown our way comes not only from the outside, but also from ourselves...from within.

Well…I want to go on record as not being one of those people.

I think the United States is handling its overwhelming power in a relatively decent, restrained, and non-intrusive way.

I shudder, for instance, to think of what would be happening now if the people with the mindset that controlled Great Britain in the 18th century were the people in control of the United States right now. Those people were world bullies! They'd simply march armies and sail their navy into other areas and take over. If they were controlling our great power…the rest of the world would truly have something to piss and moan about.

In fact, I think the abuses and excesses of almost all of the great European powers when they were at their greatest strength…make us look benign and benevolent.

Great Britain, when at its most powerful, treated the rest of the world as a vassal state…intruded when and where it wanted…whenever it wanted. Spain did the same; as did France and Portugal. Germany was no slouch either.

Compared with what the great world powers of history did (Greece, Rome, and such)…we Americans are much better than just “relatively restrained” in the use of the disparity of power.

And the fact that our citizens, since we are our government, ask for even more restraint indicates that America is not the bully so many suggest we are.

Just wanted to get that off my chest!

OK

David

1 Reply

@neologist,

neologist wrote:

I think you are just guessing, Frank.

Nothing against you. It's a common human trait.

I do lots of guessing, Neo...and you are correct that it is a common human trait.

But why are you applying it to the comments to which you linked?

I clearly state it as opinion...and I have no problem characterizing "opinion" as "guessing of a sort."

Why would you "think" that to be the case...when it obviously it?

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

So you default to name-calling. You're a pathetic case, Frank. You are also ignorant.

Really, Jabba...I am not ignorant. Wink

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

One thing you and Frank seem to have avoided in your dirty talking is that if the British Empire was such an awful institution that was unremittingly evil, why is the Commonwealth such a thriving institution to today?

At no point have I asserted that the British Empire was was an awful institution...or unremittingly evil. Nor have I said that about the Greek or Roman empires.

The British did what they did...they had great power...and they used it.

IN MY OPINION...the used what they had available with less restraint than what we Americans are using with what we have available.

I recognize and acknowledge that other well-intentioned, intelligent, reasonable people can strongly disagree with that opinion.

Don't lump me with that other guy, Iz...he's off the wall.

0 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

In a couple of threads recently, I’ve noticed the growing trend to demean, or more exactly "to demonize", the United States as much as possible…to portray it as a bully…as an intrusive spy…as “the big guy on the block" constantly pushing other people around and intruding into their lives.

I want to acknowledge that the garbage being thrown our way comes not only from the outside, but also from ourselves...from within.

Well…I want to go on record as not being one of those people.

I think the United States is handling its overwhelming power in a relatively decent, restrained, and non-intrusive way.

I shudder, for instance, to think of what would be happening now if the people with the mindset that controlled Great Britain in the 18th century were the people in control of the United States right now. Those people were world bullies! They'd simply march armies and sail their navy into other areas and take over. If they were controlling our great power…the rest of the world would truly have something to piss and moan about.

In fact, I think the abuses and excesses of almost all of the great European powers when they were at their greatest strength…make us look benign and benevolent.

Great Britain, when at its most powerful, treated the rest of the world as a vassal state…intruded when and where it wanted…whenever it wanted. Spain did the same; as did France and Portugal. Germany was no slouch either.

Compared with what the great world powers of history did (Greece, Rome, and such)…we Americans are much better than just “relatively restrained” in the use of the disparity of power.

And the fact that our citizens, since we are our government, ask for even more restraint indicates that America is not the bully so many suggest we are.

Just wanted to get that off my chest!

OK

David

Thank you for that, David.

0 Replies

Quote:

FrankApisa said: the mindset that controlled Great Britain in the 18th century....Those people were world bullies!

Hey Frankie we Brits civilised the heathen world with just a few muskets and swords, I only wish you'd been there with your nuclear bombers to back us up!
I just LURV that "fistful of lightning bolts" badge on the nose that you and your Air Force mates proudly wore on your uniforms.. Smile

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/B-47_nose_zps5e3e0f3e.jpg~original

0 Replies

@Setanta,

You really are the master of the straw man. Saying we've come to terms with our colonial past does not imply a higher morality, and only an idiot would think so. Our empire ended years ago, yours is still ongoing, and this thread is proof you've still not come to terms with it.

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

But if we were to extrapolate what Greece or Rome or Great Britain might have done with the power we have...considering what they did with the power they had when they were powerful...

...I suggest things would be much worse for the world right now.

They showed much less restraint than we are...although I acknowledge that we have been buffoons at times.

Let's not forget that the restraint of the U.S. is in context of modern weaponry that can kill more effectively than what prior powers had. Meaning, if prior powers had modern weaponry, their vanquished would have suffered more, in my opinion. I have heard that after WWII, so as not to demonize the Germans and their atrocities, it was said that what they did was just what could be done with modern technology. Prior wars did not have such modern technology.

I still believe the U.S. is fairly unique in its orientation, since many countries do not allow other ethnicities to inhabit the country, unless they are bringing wealth with them. What other countries allow foreigners to join it in obtaining its bounty (wealth)?

And, I do not believe we have been "buffoons." The country was managed from a perspective sort of opposite to the perspective of many forum participants. Sort of like the present Pope's concern with the poor of the world is not the perspective of capitalism. In my own opinion, many are alienated from the U.S. and its history, since they do not identify with the "winning" demographics in the U.S.

In many instances, the U.S. gave the losers of Europe's class system the land that was required to not be a loser in America's class system. Are any real (large) land owners on this forum, criticizing the history of the U.S.? And, having relatives that are land owners does not count. My point is that, in my opinion, a lot of criticism of U.S. history is just alienation from the U.S. class system, marinated in perhaps unconscious sour grapes. Oh yes, the inability to be grateful for the fact that this country existed when many ancestors were just Europe's starving poor folk, in my opinion. If not starving, possibly without a pot to piss in, so to speak.

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Everyone is ignorant Frank, and that includes you, unless you claim to know it all (which would not surprise me). You should try really hard to get through a response without the name calling.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

At some point I hope the top dog stops the "I can kick anyone's ass here" mentality...and works to make the entire planet a better place in which to live. We all...the capable and the much less capable...deserve a hell of a lot better than we are getting right now.

Frankie baby, that's why Popes do not go on Crusades anymore and are concerned about the poor. However, that is just the job description of the Vatican. Protestants must achieve wealth to be sure of Salvation.

When you say "we all...deserve a hell of a lot better..." you are doing the Catholic thing again (aka, loving your enemies), in my opinion. The world is all not Catholic. Sorry, to inform you of such. Over 1600 years to get everyone on the bandwagon, and it hasn't achieved it objective. Perhaps, one should just care about one's own family/tribe/flock?

2 Replies

IS AMERICA A BULLY?

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know