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King Abdullah: Al Qaeda WMDs Came From Syria

 
 
fairandbalanced
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 08:48 am
Dear Panzade and hobitbob,

I thought you might want to read this press release coming straight from King Abdullah's OFFICIAL WEBSITE.
It concerns this conservative assertion.
Quote:
In his letter, Abdullah said that had the chemical bomb plot not been uncovered, Jordan would have seen "a crime that would have been unprecedented in the country in terms of the size of explosives mounted on the vehicles and the methods of carrying out the attacks or the civilian locations chosen."


I am puzzled as to how they can come to that conclusion.
Quote:
a crime that would have been unprecedented in the country in terms of the size of explosives mounted on the vehicles and the methods of carrying out the attacks or the civilian locations chosen."

When King Abdullah said that, he was refering to the "high explosives" seized by his intelligence security.

Here is the OFFICIAL King Abdullah Press Release. Notice there are no mentions of chemical bombs, chemical materials or WMDs.

Quote:
*King Voices Pride in Intelligence & Public Security Departments
Efforts Tuesday,13-Apr-2004*

Amman, 13/4/2004, (Communication & Information Division - Royal
Hashemite Court) -- His Majesty King Abdullah II has voiced pride in the
General Intelligence and Public Security Departments' devoted efforts
and highly appreciated their vigilance and alertness to unveil and foil
plans plotted by terrorist groups aimed to undermine stability and
security in the Kingdom through detonating vehicles filled with highly
explosive materials.

In a letter addressed to the King Advisor for Security Affairs and
Director of the General Intelligence Department and the State Security
Council Raporteur General Saed Kheir, King Abdullah hailed the brave
stand by the Jordanian people in cooperating with security forces to
thwart every attempt designed to harm our dear homeland.

"As the operation to apprehend members of the terrorist group, that
aimed to terrorize innocent people, has ended successfully, I'd would
like to express my pride, appreciation and gratitude to the intelligence
and public security personnel for their excellent efforts, their
vigilance and perseverance day and night until they unveiled the
terrorist plots designed to destabilize Jordan and harm its
steadfastness," King Abdullah said in the letter.

We have passed through very critical circumstances over the past few
days when we heard about horrible plans plotted against our loyal people
by a gang of terrorists, the King added. It was with God care that their
plans have been foiled and lives of thousands of people have been saved
from a crime that Jordan has never seen before in terms of the quantity
of explosives and the way the crime has been planned, said the King.


In his letter, the King stressed that terrorist acts will never "waive
us from moving ahead to achieve our its Arab Hashemite message and to
fulfill our vision to build a Jordanian model of democracy, freedom and
justice."

In a reply letter General Kheir said with God help and with directives
from His Majesty the King the criminal plan plotted a gang of terrorists
and sinisters was thwarted in a record time.

He hailed King Abdullah's relentless support to the security
departments. Those sinister should know that we are able to reach out to
them wherever they are and we are capable of thwarting their plans
designed to terrorize and intimidate children women and the elderly,
Kheir said.
[End]




2004 Royal Hashemite Court


Quote:
It was with God care that their
plans have been foiled and lives of thousands of people have been saved
from a crime that Jordan has never seen before in terms of the quantity
of explosives and the way the crime has been planned, said the King.


Interesting, huh? Very Happy

Anyway, thanks for the welcoming greetings. I surfed on by and found this bulletin board very interesting. :wink:
0 Replies
 
fairandbalanced
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 09:04 am
To Foxfyre,

This is true.
Quote:
And is there any compelling evidence that the WMD's were destroyed or never existed


But Tarantulas "overwhelming body of evidence in Tarantulas' posts and elsewhere" ARE JUST HIS OPINION AND THE OPINION OF THE NEWSMAX WRITERS. NewsMax presents no credible evidence supporting their assertions and yet they present them like they were substantiated. NewsMax borrows quotes from credible news sources and juxtaposes them with their assertions as if the quotes supported them. NewsMax doesn't even do their own investigative reports. Everything is borrowed elsewhere. Its interesting to know that the CEO of NewsMax says "With outlets like the New York Times so outwardly left-wing in their news coverage, the American people deserve a source that offers another perspective."
Yet, I found several quotes and references to 'left-wing' articles from NYTimes that NewsMax so conveniently uses to support their assertions.
0 Replies
 
panzade
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 09:06 am
Fair, it would be a crime if you didn't surf back. I appreciate your efforts to clarify this bogus thread title. Your postings are succinct and verifiable. That's all we can ask here.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 09:17 am
What degree of under-education does it necessitate to miss the following... NewsMax and Townhall and Drudge are not lousy and untrustable because they are right-leaning. They are lousy and untrustable because of the standards of 'journalism' they display.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 09:19 am
Fair, I join Panzade in greeting you (but I won't agree that it was a bogus thread title) Smile

And I agree using one source and only one source provides one point of view and it is fair game to challenge it. I am leery of information that is being reported ONLY in left leaning publications and also of information that is being reported ONLY in right leaning publications. But verifiable facts are verifiable facts no matter what source breaks and/or reports the news. Several other sources including the mainstream news organizations are now backing up at least some of what Newsmax is reporting in T's thread here.

Almost nobody is now saying that the 'snake' doesn't have Syrian and Iranian ties. I don't know, and so far nobody has suggested that these ties are condoned by the governments of these two nations. But it all bears watching.

At any rate you provided a gallant defense of your point of view and I hope you stick around. Smile
0 Replies
 
fairandbalanced
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 09:47 am
To Foxfyre,

Thanks for the welcoming greeting and compliment. I don't what mainstream publication you are talking about but it seems to me the only ones supporting or mentioning chemical bombs are from the Associated Press. All other credible news sources have been using the same AP news reports written by Jamal Halaby. I don't know the guy but I would like to know more of him soon.

Thanks again, Foxfyre

I would have to agree with Blatham about this
Quote:
NewsMax and Townhall and Drudge are not lousy and untrustable because they are right-leaning. They are lousy and untrustable because of the standards of 'journalism' they display.


I also would like to stress that NewsMax does not do any of its own investigative reports. Everything is borrowed from elsewhere. The only stuff it contributes are their OWN UNSUBSTANTIATED OPINIONS many of which does not even pertain to the excerpts they are quoting from other news sources.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 09:48 am
Foxfyre wrote:
Several other sources including the mainstream news organizations are now backing up at least some of what Newsmax is reporting in T's thread here.


Could you give some links?
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 09:54 am
blatham wrote:
Quote:
It's interesting how a NewsMax thread title is immediately discredited, yet nothing is said about much more outrageous titles:


It is difficult not to yell at you. The point wasn't the title in and of itself, it was that the title misrepresented the contents following. Like falsies or a rock star with a cucumber in his jeans.

As to NewsMax, it is very simply far too often not credible. And that isn't because it veers in one direction or another, it is because the level of journalistic skill and integrity is close to rock bottom. Go to the WSJ if you wish to read views that lean right, but where the standards are high (relative to the present day).


Zucchini blatham, not cucumber. :wink:
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 09:55 am
That's ambitious.
0 Replies
 
fairandbalanced
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 10:13 am
To Panzade,

Thanks for the compliment. I try to bring as much credible info as I can.

Here is the URL for the King Abdullah OFFICIAL website's Press Release concerning his gratitude for his intelligence chief Saed kheir.
King abdullah's Press Release April 13, 2004

I will read the other earlier posts later. I'm kinda busy right now. I will post my comments. Please read my other posts as well. I detail my objections, evidence, and opinions. Thanks Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 10:25 am
Walter I'll look. Gotta get to work right now but will try to remember to do it later.
0 Replies
 
fairandbalanced
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 11:15 am
To Sumac & Everyone else,

Please read these articles. They are updated and credible news sources concerning the unknown chemicals and bombs used in the Jordanian bomb plot. You guys might want to read these news sources from the NYTimes and Washington Post. It might shed some light to your questions. Smile

NYTimes- Police in Jordan Kill 4 It Says Plotted Against It and the U.s.

Quote:
Police in Jordan Kill 4 It Says Plotted Against It and the U.S.
By JUDITH MILLER and DESMOND BUTLER

Published: April 21, 2004



At least three militants were killed in a firefight yesterday as the Jordanian police continued to round up suspects in what authorities have described as a major plot to bomb American and Jordanian government targets, according to officials in Jordan's capital, Amman.

Three weeks after security forces uncovered the plot, stopping five trucks filled with explosives, Jordanian and American officials say interrogations of some of the 15 men arrested suggest that the operation may have been sponsored by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a Jordanian terrorist linked to al Qaeda. The Bush administration has accused Mr. Zarqawi of supporting anti-American operations in Iraq.

Jordanian and American officials said the scale of the bombing plot compared to Qaeda's foiled attempt to mount simultaneous attacks on Jordanian hotels and tourist sites over the millennium celebrations. Jordan is an American ally in the Middle East and has a large American presence.

"This would have been a huge attack," said one American official, who recently returned from Jordan. "The security that I saw in the wake of the plot was intense. From Aqaba to Amman. The situation is bad."

The firefight yesterday came after the police, acting on a tip, surrounded a house in a poor district of Amman, officials said. In addition to those killed, three men were detained.

Jordanian officials first reported the foiled operation on April 1, but with few details, saying only that several militants had been arrested in connection with a bombing plot. But as the arrests have mounted, more information has come out, and in an interview last week with the San Francisco Chronicle, King Abdullah II of Jordan, said the five trucks, packed with more than 17 tons of explosives, had entered his country from Syria.

The security of Syria's border is already the source of considerable tension between Washington and Damascus. In recent days, Syrian and American officials have disagreed about whether Damascus is committed to tightening its borders with Jordan and Iraq.

Richard Boucher, the State Department spokesman, said Monday that President Bush had sent a letter urging the Syrian President, Bashar al-Assad, "to work closely with the rest of the international community to promote a stable Iraq." Another official said that the administration was also concerned about terrorist infiltration into Jordan.

But Syrian officials and a former American ambassador to Syria said that Damascus had gotten no response from recent overtures to work more closely with the United States on border security.

"I believe the Syrians have on at least two occasions indicated a desire to discuss cooperation across its borders in a serious way," said the former ambassador, Theodore Kattouf, who met with President Assad in Damasucs last month. "I'm unaware that the administration has accepted such an offer." He said Mr. Assad had told him that within the last year Syria had arrested 1300 people for trying or helping others try to cross the border into Iraq.

An American official acknowledged the Syrian overtures but said the administration was not convinced of their seriousness.

The Bush administration is preparing to impose new sanctions against Syria, which it says is a supporter of terrorism. Several officials said yesterday that the administration could announce the sanctions as soon as this week.

Two weeks ago, the administration sent another signal of its displeasure when the Pentagon transferred jurisdiction for Syria and Lebanon, in which Syrian forces have been stationed for years, from its European command to the Central Command, which coordinated the invasions of both Afghanistan and Iraq.

"It was a not very subtle signal," one defense department official said.

Imad Moustapha, Syria's ambassador to Washington, denied that Damascus had sanctioned, or had prior knowledge of the planned terrorist attacks in Jordan. He also stressed that Damascus desired a "constructive relationship" with the United States and would try to pursue closer ties even if the administration imposed sanctions.

"Those elements," he said, referring to the suspects in Jordan, "were probably members of fundamentalist groups. So they are our enemy too."

American officials described the explosives that the plotters were planning to use as similar to the bomb used in the Oklahoma City attack in 1995. One American intelligence official said that in addition to diesel fuel and explosives, the Jordanians found "garden-variety" chemicals that they believe were probably intended to help ignite and augment the bomb. He said Jordanian police found hydrogen peroxide and nitric acid in the trucks.


Pay close attention to the end of this article.
Quote:
American officials described the explosives that the plotters were planning to use as similar to the bomb used in the Oklahoma City attack in 1995. One American intelligence official said that in addition to diesel fuel and explosives, the Jordanians found "garden-variety" chemicals that they believe were probably intended to help ignite and augment the bomb. He said Jordanian police found hydrogen peroxide and nitric acid in the trucks.


Hydrogen peroxide and nitric acid are not even close to being classified in the same category as WMDs. I guess if terrorists were able to get tons and tons of these chemicals, it might come close. Compare that to small amounts of real WMDs doing the same job for more disastrous and lethal results.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Washington Post & Associated Press- By Jamal Halaby April 20, 2004

Quote:
Jordan Police Kill Four Terror Suspects

By JAMAL HALABY
The Associated Press
Tuesday, April 20, 2004; 3:55 PM


AMMAN, Jordan - Authorities stormed a basement in a poor neighborhood of the Jordanian capital Tuesday, killing four men believed to have ties to an al-Qaida-linked cell that plotted simultaneous bombing and chemical attacks against the U.S. Embassy and other targets.



Three other men were detained at the hide-out, according to an Associated Press photographer at the scene.

It was not immediately clear what relationship the detained men had with the slain terror suspects. Three of the dead were foreigners, government spokeswoman Asma Khader said without giving their nationalities.

The bomb plot was disclosed earlier this week and was said to have been foiled following the arrests of several suspects in two raids in late March and early April. Had the chemical bomb exploded, it could have killed at least 20,000 people and wrecked buildings within a half-mile radius, government officials say.

Jordan, a moderate Arab nation with close ties to the United States and a peace treaty with Israel, has been targeted by al-Qaida and other groups.

The nearly four-hour operation began in Tuesday afternoon when hundreds of policemen, acting on a tip, surrounded a one-mile area around the one-story, white-brick building in the eastern Hashemi district of Amman, a predominantly Palestinian area.

Police called for the suspects to surrender, but they responded with gunfire, the statement said.

About 2 1/2 hours into the operation, police fired several volleys of tear gas at the hide-out.

"Open the door! Surrender!" shouted a Special Forces security man in black uniform through a loudspeaker after police arrested one of three men trying to escape from the back of the house.

Shortly afterward, about six Special Forces men wearing gas masks stormed the house, breaking down the door with an iron bar. Smoke, apparently from a tear gas canister that was fired by the security forces, was seen rising from the basement.

Two men, one bearded, were dragged out of the house. Authorities handcuffed them and forced them to lie on their bellies on the ground next to the first suspect. An official in civilian clothes slapped the men on the face and screamed abuse at them.

Joyful women on balconies of nearby buildings ululated and boys clapped and whistled as police took the three away. Some security forces were slightly injured in the operation.

A security official, speaking on condition of anonymity, told AP that the four killed were believed to have links to a group that plotted to detonate a powerful chemical bomb against Jordan's secret service, and use poison gas against the prime minister's office, the U.S. Embassy and other diplomatic missions.

"Information made available to security authorities pointed to the presence of an armed group which had plotted to carry out terror attacks," the police statement said.

The U.S. Embassy in Amman declined comment on Tuesday's shootout. But other Western diplomatic officials contacted by AP said they believed there was a link between the al-Qaida-linked terror threat and the slain suspects.

Authorities have said the suspects in the earlier raids entered Jordan from Syria, which denies the allegation.

Police said several of the terror suspects arrested last month confessed that the plots were hatched by Jordanian militant Abu-Musab al-Zarqawi, thought to be a close associate of al-Qaida boss Osama bin Laden.

U.S. officials have offered a $10 million reward for al-Zarqawi's capture, saying he is trying to build a network of foreign militants in neighboring Iraq to work on al-Qaida's behalf.

Twenty-two Arab men were convicted in a plot that targeted U.S. and Israeli tourists in the 2000 millennium celebrations in Jordan.


Associated Press reporters Hussein Malla and Shafika Mattar contributed to this story.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BBC- Jordanian police kill 'militants'

Quote:
Jordanian police kill 'militants'
Wednesday, 21 April, 2004, 10:50 GMT 11:50 UK

Jordanian police acted after a tip-off
Police in Jordan have killed four suspected militants in a shoot-out in the capital Amman, officials say.
Those killed are believed to be linked to a terror cell operating in Jordan.

The cell is alleged to have been plotting simultaneous bombing and chemical attacks against several targets - including the US Embassy.

The Jordanian authorities said last Saturday they had thwarted an attack on the intelligence headquarters by suspected militants linked to al-Qaeda.

Jordan, which has a peace treaty with Israel and strong ties with the US, has been targeted by militants in the past.

'Chemical bomb'

On Tuesday police stormed a hideout in eastern parts of Amman where the suspects had been hiding, the statement said.


Zarqawi has been condemned to death in absentia in Jordan.
Officers urged those inside to surrender, but they replied with gunfire, it added.

It is not clear how many suspects were involved in the shootout, or if any escaped.

An official said two of those who died were foreigners.

Another official told the Associated Press news agency that they were linked to a group that had plotted to destroy government buildings with a powerful chemical bomb.

Had the bomb exploded, it would have killed at least 20,000 people and wrecked many buildings, government officials told AP.

The group is also believed to have been planning attacks against the US embassy and other diplomatic missions in Amman, the agency says.

Earlier this month, a Jordanian court sentenced to death eight Muslim radicals for killing a US government official in Amman in 2002.

Among those convicted was the suspected al-Qaeda leader in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, who was sentenced in absentia.




I hope you guys find these CREDIBLE news sources helpful. Apparently, there were chemical bombs in the plot. But can you qualify nitric acid and hydrogen peroxide as WMDs? I don't think so. I believe professional security experts would agree with me on that. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 11:25 am
Thanks, fairandbalanced, for this collection from the papers, which "A2K professional security experts" weren't able to find.
(Such was reported earlier this week in European/German papers/magazines as well)
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 11:29 am
WMD, acetic acid, lithium deuteride, hair dye what the difference? surely fairandbalanced, you dont expect people here to be fair and balanced?
0 Replies
 
panzade
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 11:34 am
cheap shot walter, but hilarious nonetheless.
Tar, don't be a carnival barker; make the headline represent the link.
0 Replies
 
Tarantulas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 11:46 am
One source said "hydrogen peroxide and nitric acid."

Two sources said "poison gas."

One source said "chemical bomb."

We don't really know what it was yet.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 11:48 am
panzade wrote:
cheap shot walter, but hilarious nonetheless.
Quote:


Question
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 12:14 pm
Tarantulas, your use of the editorial "We" here is much misplaced--there seems to be a significant gap between what you claim to know, and that which others allege is available from a variety of reputable news sources.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 12:20 pm
Then obviously he wasn't including "you" in his "we" then was he?
0 Replies
 
panzade
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 12:21 pm
why question my post when you went back and edited what I referred to, Walter?
0 Replies
 
 

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