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King Abdullah: Al Qaeda WMDs Came From Syria

 
 
fairandbalanced
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Apr, 2004 10:05 am
Blatham,

You are absolutely right. If Tarantula posted a title saying something like WMDs In Syria Found, Tarantula must back that title up with substantiated facts. Tarantula cannot simply take quotes and pieces from reputable news sources and then juxtapose that with their own misleading comments. NewsMax does that often to connect two or more UNRELATED STATEMENTS from different news sources and expect their readers to believe that false connection.

One example of this is Tarantula's newly posted article from the Jewish World Review.
Quote:
Explosives and poison gas that could have killed as many as 20,000 people and decapitated his government came from Syria, Jordan's King Abdullah told the San Francisco Chronicle last Saturday.


Let us dissect this statement. First, the explosives and alleged poison gas were MENTIONED BY TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLE. King Abdullah said as quoted by the San Francisco Chronicle "It was a major, major operation. It would have decapitated the government" This quote was indeed said by King Abdullah referring to the "high explosives" seized in Jordan and NOT ABOUT THE ALLEGED POISON GAS.
The part "poison gas that could have killed as many as 20,000 people" was said by some unnamed officials in Jordan.

Here is the actual quote from the UNNAMED official in Jordan as quoted the AFP News Agency (Agence France-Presse)
Quote:
"We found primary materials to make a chemical bomb which, if it had exploded, would have made nearly 20,000 deaths ... in an area of one square kilometre."


NewsMax and Jewish World Review likes to put those two quotes together like it was all said by King Abdullah of Jordan. NewsMax and others like it have no journalistic integrity whatsoever.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Apr, 2004 10:11 am
I was just reading through this thread and had two thoughts:

1. Why is the title a member chooses to place on his/her thread so much of an issue? Does anybody else get tired of nitpicking semantics and trying to characterize a member's intent or 'true meaning' rather than deal with the subject matter presented?

2. The USA Today is a Republican-leaning newspaper? Sheesh. It seems that if a newspaper or any other news source isn't constantly bashing GWB or Republicans, it is branded 'conservative' or 'pro-Republican' or whatever. (Which I suppose is why liberals despise Fox News so much but that's for another thread.)
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Apr, 2004 10:17 am
The title willfully misrepresents the story which it alleges to accurately retail, and that justifies criticism of the title. Tarantulas has failed to establish that the Jordanian King said what the title alleges he said--and continues to ignore to the point refutations of his sources as presented by Fairandbalanced. Tarantulas has failed to establish that any weapons of mass destruction were involved, and continues to ignore the point by point refutation provided by Fairandbalanced. Finally, the very articles which Tarantulas posts here do not make allegation that Al Quaeda were involved, and only uses terms such as "may have," and "possible link." So others in this thread with good reading comprehension skills are justifiably criticisizing the title of the thread, and its false message.
0 Replies
 
Tarantulas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Apr, 2004 10:21 am
Any actual WMDs that are found will bring many crystal palaces crashing down, so denial is the order of the day.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Apr, 2004 10:40 am
A refusal to believe that which has not been proven does not constitute denial. Rather a pathetic attempt at metaphore there, Boss.
0 Replies
 
Tarantulas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Apr, 2004 10:44 am
BBC/AFP

Quote:
Jordan 'was chemical bomb target'

Al-Qaeda-linked terrorists planned a chemical attack on Jordan's spy headquarters that could have killed 20,000 people, officials have said.
Earlier this week King Abdullah said a massive attack had been thwarted by a series of arrests, but named no target.

Now unnamed officials say the suspects have confessed to plotting to detonate a chemical bomb on the Amman HQ of the Intelligence Services.

The plot was reportedly hatched by al-Qaeda suspect Abu-Musab al-Zarqawi.

Washington has accused the 38-year-old Jordanian radical of masterminding a string of spectacular suicide bombings in Iraq.

'Deadly gas'

An official involved in the inquiry in Jordan told AFP news agency: "We found primary materials to make a chemical bomb which, if it had exploded, would have made nearly 20,000 deaths ... in an area of one square kilometre.

"The target of this bomb was the headquarters of the Intelligence Services," situated on a hill in the western suburb of Amman, he added.

The official said another operation planned by the network was to use "deadly gas against the US embassy and the prime minister's office in Amman ... and other public buildings in Jordan".

'Divine protection'

On Tuesday, in a letter thanking his intelligence chief for uncovering the plot, King Abdullah said Jordan had "lived through an extremely delicate situation in recent days".

"But divine protection has thwarted the plans of these criminals and saved the lives of thousands of civilians in what would have been a crime never before seen in the kingdom," he argued.

The intelligence chief General Saad Khair said the group used religion as a pretext for its actions, but their plans were anything but religious.

He thought that they wanted to attack Jordan's position on upholding Arab causes, especially Palestinian rights. He said mop-up operations were continuing.

Two weeks ago the authorities in Jordan said they had found cars carrying explosives by an underground group planning to attack US interests in the kingdom.

Link
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Apr, 2004 10:45 am
Denial works both ways. There's also a denial that WMD's did not exist in Iraq. Addictive personalities can give up one form of abuse and adopt another before your very eyes.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Apr, 2004 10:46 am
Tarantula writes

Quote:
It's interesting how a NewsMax thread title is immediately discredited, yet nothing is said about much more outrageous titles:

"Ms Rice Married to GW Bush?"

"America has lost the war in Iraq."

"Beware Of Presidents With Forked Tongues!"

"George Bush, Self-deluded Messiah"

"THE PRESIDENT'S BRAIN IS MISSING"

"Bush vs Hussein: a close race."



Doesn't T have a point here? Or is the double standard to be skimmed over and ignored again?
0 Replies
 
panzade
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Apr, 2004 10:48 am
Basta! Not worth my time and effort. Outtahere.
0 Replies
 
panzade
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Apr, 2004 10:52 am
One last thing, Foxy, you're right. I was remiss in not giving those thread titles the same treatment. I'll be more vigilant in the future. Tarantulas, if you were trying to prove your grasp of the "Monkey See Monkey Do" principle, I'm a believer.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Apr, 2004 10:54 am
Quote:
I'm a believer.

So is Foxy, but in her case it replaces the need for thought.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Apr, 2004 11:01 am
If nothing else, the thread title sparked interest and debate. not about the topic so much as the usual "LOOK! A conservative made a post that I disagree with! Let's pound it and abuser [insert conservative name]!!"

Tarantulas has brought up interesting information here about WMD's in syria. IIRC, one of the theories going into Iraq was that the majority of WMD's were secreted to Syria. If that proves to be the case, as some of these articles suggest, then that will open one big can of trouble for Syria...
0 Replies
 
Tarantulas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Apr, 2004 11:17 am
Yes, the white-hot spotlight of public attention will turn toward Syria. I'm a little puzzled - I thought the inspectors had been invited into Syria already. I wonder if they're inspecting the suspected locations listed in that earlier article.

Anyway...

Reuters

Quote:
Jordan Says It Thwarted Chemical Attack

Sun Apr 18, 2004 02:57 PM ET

AMMAN, Jordan (Reuters) - Jordanian security sources said Sunday they had thwarted a plot by militant Islamists to launch a deadly chemical attack that could have caused thousands of civilian casualties.
Two security sources told Reuters dawn raids earlier this month on the homes of suspected members of an underground group that planned terror attacks had uncovered quantities of raw chemicals prepared for a large-scale chemical attack.

The unspecified number of suspects also had explosives probably obtained locally or from a neighboring country and some appeared to have explosives expertise, they added.

The sources did not give details but indicated that one intended target was the large intelligence compound in the west of the capital. Jordanian officials and U.S. diplomats said the heavily fortified U.S. embassy was another target.

King Abdullah said last Wednesday that security forces had saved thousands of lives by preventing a terrorist group from attacking public places.

"Terrorists planned to bomb government agencies and strike civilian institutions" with explosives-packed cars, he said. Had they succeeded "we would not have witnessed anything like it before," he added, without giving further details.

Another security source said the timing of the release of information on a chemical attack was intended to coincide with Abdullah's visit to Washington, where he is scheduled to meet President Bush next Wednesday.

Officials disclosed earlier this month they had uncovered a group planning to carry out "terrorist attacks," arresting most of its members and hunting others.

The government has said nothing about the group's identity but security sources told Reuters the interrogation of some suspects revealed ties to Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network.

Jordanian security sources said al Qaeda was incensed at the covert aid Jordan had given to the U.S. military campaign in Iraq and had tried to punish Jordan for supporting Washington's efforts to pacify post-war Iraq.

They said cars carrying explosives had been driven into Jordan from Syria. Both sides patrol the long desert border but smugglers often slip across it.

Jordan's powerful intelligence community has for years boasted that it had foiled plots by al Qaeda-linked militants to launch deadly attacks on Western targets and government installations.

Link
0 Replies
 
fairandbalanced
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Apr, 2004 11:41 am
Lightwizard,

Hello Smile
Well, I don't think democrats or liberals are claiming that WMDs NEVER existed in Iraq. That fact is Iraq had WMDs way back in the Gulf War. Iraq also tried to resurrect its chemical and biological weapons programs back in 1998 but it failed to do so. David Kay, who was convinced in saying that there are WMDs in Iraq before the Iraq invasion last year, is now saying that IRAQ HAD NO WMDs BEFORE BUSH LAUNCHED HIS ATTACK. David Kay believes that the programs fizzled out because Saddam's own men were stealing money from him and lying to him about the status of the WMD programs.

We know that IN THE PAST there were WMDs in Iraq because the Reagan Administration gave Iraq the materials for building their biochemical programs. That is a fact and it is documented. You can look it up if you like in the US archives.

I was saying Tarantula's headlines were misleading simply because Tarantula says that Iraq's WMDs went to Syria when he/she has no proof. The article Tarantula is posting to support his/her statements are either disreputable, misleading or flat out lies. If you read my posts, I explain in great detail how I came to this conclusion. Tarantula's evidence is an insult to himself/herself and to our intelligence.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Apr, 2004 11:55 am
Tarantula's heading:
Quote:
King Abdullah: Al Qaeda WMDs Came From Syria


fairandbalanced writes:
Quote:
I was saying Tarantula's headlines were misleading simply because Tarantula says that Iraq's WMDs went to Syria when he/she has no proof. The article Tarantula is posting to support his/her statements are either disreputable, misleading or flat out lies. If you read my posts, I explain in great detail how I came to this conclusion. Tarantula's evidence is an insult to himself/herself and to our intelligence.


Looks to me that T's headline says nothing about Iraq's WMDs going to Syria. Now either a remedial reading course or a retraction would be in order here.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Apr, 2004 12:04 pm
I did not post there was denial existing in that Iraq never had any WMD's. The heading is a tabloid techinque of hooking the reader. It all but destroys any credibility the poster may have. Next up: two headed aliens found in Syria.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Apr, 2004 12:19 pm
Lightwizard, why put so much importance on how any member chooses to 'headline' a thread and give everybody else who does this a pass? See the earlier posts listing all the utterly ridiculous active titles out there in this forum right now.

In all honesty, I hate the newspaper headlines that suggest something is far worse than the facts....something like "Bush under fire for chasing chickens" when the story indicates that this was alleged by an 'unnamed' source and fifteen other witnesses state that it wasn't so. Why isn't the headline written "Witnesses discredit report that Bush chased chickens"? It is because an inflammatory headline sometimes attracts more readers than a more accurately descriptive one.

But to single out one member as somehow disingenuous or misleading or having no credibility because of it when more than half the A2K members in the politics forum do it, is even more disingenuous.
0 Replies
 
Tarantulas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Apr, 2004 12:26 pm
fairandbalanced - My name is Tarantulas, not Tarantula, and I am male.

MORE AFP

Quote:
Jordan police kill three suspected militants in shootout

Time is GMT + 8 hours
Posted: 20 April 2004 2310 hrs

AMMAN : Jordanian security forces announced they had killed three suspected militants in a shootout in the capital in the latest in a spate of counterterrorism operations in recent weeks.

"Acting on a tip that a group of armed men planning terrorist attacks were in the Hashemi region (of east Amman), a police force went to the site at 2:20 pm (1120 GMT)," a security official told the state-run Petra news agency on Tuesday.

"The gunmen were ordered to surrender but they opened fire on the security forces who returned fire, killing all three."

The official said one of the suspects was Jordanian and the other two foreigners.

He said police "stormed the house in which the terrorist group was holed up and the operation led to the deaths of the entire group, consisting of three" people.

He did not give further details.

Government spokeswoman Asma Khodr told AFP an investigation was under way but declined to elaborate.

It was the latest in a flurry of conspiracies revealed by Jordanian officials which they have linked to Abu Mussab al-Zarqawi, a fugitive Islamist sentenced to death here earlier this month for the October 2002 killing of a US diplomat.

Last week, Jordan's King Abdullah II said the security services had dismantled a "terror network", thwarting plans by the group to commit "a crime never before seen in the kingdom" which would have killed thousands.

The king, in a letter to the head of Jordan's intelligence services, General Saad Khair, which was made public on April 13, said that all the members of the group had been arrested, without saying what the suspects were targeting.

He added that his assessment of the magnitude of the threat was based on the "quantity of explosives found" in cars that had been seized, as well as the "manner in which the terror operation was to be carried out and the choice of civilian targets."

The king later told a US newspaper, the San Francisco Chronicle, that Jordanian police had seized five trucks loaded with 17.5 tonnes of high explosives.

"It was a major, major operation," King Abdullah said in the April 17 interview.

"It would have decapitated the government," he said.

The explosives were apparently intended for an attack on the Jordanian prime minister's office and the intelligence ministry, King Abdullah said, adding that it was uncovered after two suspected terrorists were arrested two weeks ago.

The monarch told the US newspaper that, although the trucks came from Syria, he was "completely confident that (Syrian President) Bashar (al-Assad) did not know about it."

He said that European counterterrorism experts were aiding the Jordanian police investigation, but gave few details.

An official involved in the inquiry later told AFP that the dismantled cell planned on attacking Jordan's intelligence headquarters with a chemical bomb which would have killed 20,000 people in the surrounding west Amman region.

"We found primary materials to make a chemical bomb which, if it had exploded, would have made nearly 20,000 deaths ... in an area of one square kilometre," the official said Saturday, on condition of anonymity.

Another operation planned by the group was to use "deadly gas against the US embassy and the prime minister's office in Amman ... and other public buildings in Jordan", he added.

- AFP

Link

17.5 tonnes of explosives is a hefty dose.
0 Replies
 
Tarantulas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Apr, 2004 12:34 pm
Every story is a little different. This one mentions funding coming from Iraq and Iran, although the meaning isn't clear.

Quote:
Report: Jordan foils huge chemical attack on inelligence HQ

16-04-2004, 10:53

The cell that was apprehended last week in Jordan planned to carry out a large-scale chemical attack, Jordanian officials told the London-based al-Hayat daily. According to the Friday's report, the prevention of the attack may have saved thousands of lives.

It added that the "majority of the members" were arrested. Jordanian officials said the plan was to detonate a powerful car bomb, which included chemical materials, at the Jordanian Military Intelligence headquarters. The cell also intended to use poison gas during attacks on the US embassy in Amman and a government building in the kingdom.

The officials said that following the interrogation of the cell members, it was revealed they were connected to senior al-Qaeda operative Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, who is high up on the US most wanted list in Iraq.

Two detained men identified as Suleiman Khaled Darwish and Ali Adwan "established the cell, which was funded by al-Zarqawi from Iraq and Iran," Jordanian sources told al Hayat.

With the help of a third man, Azmi Abd al Fattah al Jayousi, they managed to smuggle three cars packed with explosives. In one of the cars, security forces found the chemical charge. The Jordanian authorities are still looking for al Jayousi.

The Jordanian officials were quoted as saying, "The bomb, had it been detonated, could have affected people in a one kilometer radius and cause the deaths of more 20,000 people, according to estimates by bomb experts".

King of Jordan Abdullah II on Wednesday sent a letter of appreciation to the Kingdom's security forces who managed to foil the plot. "Thank God, the plans of these criminals were foiled and thousands of souls were saved from a crime this country has never known". (Albawaba.com)

Link
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Apr, 2004 12:44 pm
Please cite the other mis-leading or inflammatory titles.
0 Replies
 
 

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