The results of the siege of Fallujah

"Interesting how you managed to slip this in after I'd posted a response. It wasn't here last night."

Lol! Sofia - I have no idea what you meant by this laughably ridiculous comment - but it certainly demonstrates the depths things have got to. I am wondering what weird fantasies you are weaving around your not having seen something.

Anyway, as I said, I am happy to cease further attempts to discuss things with you.

"laughably ridiculous"....

Surely you can do better.

One of my weird fantasies is that it was a computer glitch, as I stated above.

If you're so happy to cease, why didn't you the first time you said you would? Really. Its not like you have to build up your number of posts...

Sofia, if you can't contribute to the discussion, as thread originator, can I politely as you to bugger off?

Lol - don't worry, Bob...

And to get this thread back on track - here is some GOOD news from Fallujah:


A US Marine mantains a security position in Fallujah. (AFP)

Fallujah cease-fire holds
The US military in Iraq says a cease-fire in the Sunni triangle town of Fallujah is holding, despite sporadic fighting.

Hospital sources in the town now say they believe more than 600 Iraqis have been killed in the American assault there.

Iraqi negotiators, including members of the interim Governing Council, have gone into the town for the past two days but a solution appears to be foundering on demands from the insurgents that the US Marines withdraw from the town, something US commanders have ruled out in the short term.

Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt said his troops had unilaterally suspended military operations and was offering an unconditional cease-fire.

He said the US was looking at a political track to restore Government control and progress was being made in moving that political process forward.

Meanwhile, the cease-fire between US troops and insurgents in Fallujah has been extended until Monday 0600 GMT to allow mediation talks to resolve the crisis, according to a mediator.

"The cease-fire which ended this evening has been extended till tomorrow, Monday, at 10:00 am," said Alaa Makki, a senior member of the Iraqi Islamic Party who has been leading mediation efforts.

"We remain optimistic because we still have promises from the two parties. There are a few hurdles along the way, but we will get there," he said.

It has also been revealed that a battalion of the new Iraqi army ordered into Fallujah refused to support US Marines besieging the city.

The incident is casting doubt on plans to increasingly transfer security matters to Iraqi forces.

The 620-man Second Army Battalion refused to fight after members of the unit were shot at in a Shiite neighbourhood of Baghdad while en route to Fallujah.

Confirming the incident, the US Commander in Iraq, Lieutenant General Ricardo Sanchez, said it did in fact uncover some significant challenges in some of the Iraqi security force structures that have been put into place over the last six months.

He said the US military had known that in organising reliable security forces in Iraq as quickly as it had done, there would be some risks.

That is interesting about the Iraqi army....

It contributed as much as this did, hobitbob. This one didn't bother you? Odd...

I do defer to thread originators, and will so to you. However, when someone continues to respond to me, as she did, I consider that I have an equal right to respond.

I found this article from an Al Jazeera journalist quite interesting -

Highway to hell: The road to Falluja
By Odai Sirri in Garma

Sunday 11 April 2004, 1:29 Makka Time, 22:29 GMT


US marines hunt for Iraqi rebels on the outskirts of Falluja



Related:
Doctor reveals Falluja's horror toll
US attack belies Bremer's Falluja 'truce'
US: Fierce Falluja fighting recalls Vietnam
Iraqis march to Falluja carrying aid
Grisly Falluja pictures shock US viewers



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As we drive through the back roads on the way to Falluja, US jets are pounding the area around the tiny village of Garma.


The sight of US reinforcements flying into the area and the continuous sound of explosions and gunfire proves too much for my driver. He pulls into the village, unwilling to go any further.

Half way between Baghdad and Falluja, Garma is well placed to witness the US bombardment of the latter, where the steadily rising toll of dead Iraqis from the past week's fighting has passed 400. At least 1000 have been reported wounded.

With the main routes into the town blocked or too dangerous, Garma ? just 15 minutes from Falluja ? has become a stepping stone for resistance fighters on their way to help their besieged compatriots.

Witnesses report seeing scores of fighters passing through Garma daily.

A lorry of what appear to be 15 tribesmen stops next to us. But the tribesmen ? each man's face covered by an aqal (the Iraqi headscarf) ? are from Baghdad.

Stopping to rest at a tea shop before entering the besieged town, Ahmad, a 25-year-old with the worn face of a battle-hardened warrior, tells me of his intentions.

?We're going to assist our brothers in Falluja and try to prevent the massacre of Iraqis.?

Bloodbath

But Ahmad and his colleagues will have their work cut out for them. Breaking news from Aljazeera on a nearby television shows fresh images from Falluja: scores of dead, including many children. The town has turned into a bloodbath.

The images prove too much for Ahmad; he drops his face into his hands and breaks down. As he walks away, I call an Aljazeera cameraman in Falluja to check on his safety.


Falluja's hospitals are overflowing
with dead and wounded


My colleague's voice is panic-stricken as he describes the scene, echoing the pictures that have shocked Ahmad.

?There are images we can?t show because it?s just too gruesome. I have never seen anything like this before,? he says.

?There are bodies everywhere, and people can?t go out to retrieve them because they?re too afraid of being blown away themselves.

?I can?t believe the number of children here, we were at the hospital and it?s full of dead and wounded kids.

?The ones that aren?t dead have lost limbs and are wailing in pain, begging for their parents. What parents?? he screams. ?I don?t have the heart to tell them that their parents are in pieces.

?Back at our office the Americans are shooting at us. I walk out of the bathroom and a laser is pointed at my chest,? he says, referring to US sharpshooters in the area.

?We 'd just bought cigarettes from a store across the street; no more than ten minutes later it was bombed.?

Tired of fighting

Ahmad returns and orders another cup of tea. But our conversation shifts focus as he asks about my life growing up in Canada. He looks at me curiously and asks my age.

?You see? We?re the same age, but look at my face, I look many years older than you,? he says, his voice quivering with emotion.


Deadly fate: An insurgent lies
dead in the battle-ravaged town


?We Iraqis are tired of all this fighting, why doesn?t the US just leave us alone? What did we ever do to them??

?You know what the funny thing about this entire mess is? If Saddam were to come back right now, all this fighting would stop in two hours, isn?t that right Ali??

Ahmad and his companion begin laughing.The laughter ends as more images of the Falluja scene appear on TV.

?The US will never leave Iraq,? he says more soberly. ?You know what I want to see happen in Iraq? I want to see a federal Iraq where everyone from north to south, and east to west is fairly represented. We Arabs, Sunni, Shia, and Christian; the Kurds, the Turkmen ? we are all Iraqis.?

But his hopes and desires seem far away as the sound of bombs and mortar shells reverberate through our café. A few minutes later the driver of his lorry sounds the horn. Ahmad takes a final sip of his tea and says goodbye.

If the mounting toll is any indication, Ahmad will probably not make it out of Falluja alive.





It is sad that Ahmad - however one may view the invasion - wants, in the end, what the US and the Coalition and the UN could probably deliver....if the people will support it...

Have you decided to be the police here now? I seem to recall trying a similar tactic awhile ago. I also recall YOU being the one that jumped all over me stating that I shouldn't tell people what and where to post. So, if you don't like it, too f'ing bad.

Lies
Defiant US says Falluja dead were rebels
Posted by JoFerret on Mon Apr-12-04 01:40 AM

The United States last night robustly defended its controversial siege of Falluja which has cost the lives of more than 600 people over the past week, by claiming most of those who died were militants picked off with precision by US marines.
As a tense ceasefire held in the turbulent city west of Baghdad and an international hostage crisis persisted across Iraq, the US marine commander in charge of the siege of Falluja claimed 95% of those killed were legitimate targets.

The death toll in Falluja has sparked widespread international concern and has led to condemnation by the US-appointed Iraqi governing council.

Yesterday, the director of the town's general hospital, Rafie al-Issawi, said the vast majority of the dead were women, children and the elderly.

But when asked about the victims numbers, US marine Lieutenant Colonel Brennan Byrne said: "What I think you will find is 95% of those were military age males that were killed in the fighting. The marines are trained to be precise in their firepower ... The fact that there are 600 goes back to the fact that the marines are very good at what they do," he said. >>
<more>

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1190288,00.html

When these towns decide they no longer want to be a part of civilized Iraq, they should be cordoned off, all power and water and food going into the city should be halted and a cleric should be sent in to restore sanity.

We should not be trying to over-power anyone. We should simply show them what it is we are providing for them.

Er - I think you will find they had water, food and power before we came - or have I misunderstood you?

Its a common mistake. What many people who applaud the attempts to return basic services seem to forget is the reason those basic services were decimated in the first place. Let's give him a hint, shall we?

Yes, I am sure Saddam took very good care of everyone in Iraq. That's why he was so loved.

Well, I gues the trains ran on time - isn't that the way with 'orrible dictators?

No one has said Hussein was a nice person, however, Iraq had the highest standard of living of any nation in that area before the invasion. Clean water and electricity were not things that came and went with the wind,a s they are now. I don't care if you choose to "believe" this or not, but you might wish to do some basic research before you post stupid comments, which seem to be your forte. One gets the impression that you would have been quite happy to be a part of the Huseein regime from the comments you have made here.

Speaking of horseapples...

I would suggest you follow your own advice here.

The 'people hate the U.S. because they hate freedom BS' is not as far fetched as some think. Islam does not advocate 'freedom' in the same way Americans think of freedom. The dictatorships inherent in the ruling families of almost all predominently Islamic countries--there are exceptions such as Turkey and Indonesia--are not at all interested in giving the people more freedoms and they hold us in contempt because of the way we speak, worship, dress, drink beer, let our gays demonstrate, and let our women run corporations.

To the radical Islamic fundamentalists, we are truly the great Satan enticing their people into sin and decadence. They see a free, democratic, prosperous, and happy Iraq as a particular threat that might give their people all kinds of notions they don't want their people to have.

I read an article that refutes there was safe, operable drinking water reservoirs and pipes in many areas.

The US serviceman stated that people seemed to think they were in operation, and we destroyed them--and were wondering how we could be so neglectful as to take so long to restore it. He said it had to be done from scratch.

I'll see if I can find it.

Iraq didn't have a high living standard. Saddam did.

You are so correct, dahling, and it is so easy to repair or build from scratch infrastructure when being shot at and/or bombed.

Before you waste your time Sofia, ask yourself if it will be worth it. Nothing will change some peoples minds...