0
   

The results of the siege of Fallujah

 
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2004 07:26 pm
Novak and Blair were "covered for" by the NY Times for short periods of time.
0 Replies
 
Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2004 07:31 pm
These are entirely different situations than conducting an interview and saying you didn't.

Blair was a personnel thing--and Novak didn't do anything wrong. He wrote what he thought was safe information. He thought Plame was a regular employee, not a spook. If the person, who dropped her name knew her clandestine position--they did something wrong.

AJ lied about conducting an interview.

Why?
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2004 07:34 pm
Who are Novak and Blair?
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2004 07:36 pm
I don't know, sofia, obviously the explanation them raggy-heads gave, about not wishing to assist OBL can't be right, can it? After all, they're the enemy, right? I'm taired of participating while you make a mole hill into a towering everest. You don't trust al-Jazeera, and have no real reason for your distrust, other than that you just don't. How nice.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2004 07:38 pm
dlowan wrote:
Who are Novak and Blair?

Robert Novak exposed Valerie Plame as a CIA agent, after being tipped of by an anonymous source in the WH. She is the wife of the former ambassador who exposed the "aluminium tubes" story as yet another Bush lie.

Jason Blair was a reporter for the NY times who was fired for plagiarizing many of his stories, and fabricating the rest.
0 Replies
 
Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2004 07:49 pm
hobitbob wrote:
I don't know, sofia, obviously the explanation them raggy-heads gave, about not wishing to assist OBL can't be right, can it? After all, they're the enemy, right? I'm taired of participating while you make a mole hill into a towering everest. You don't trust al-Jazeera, and have no real reason for your distrust, other than that you just don't. How nice.

No. They would have said they'd done the interview, but weren't going to run it. Then it would be believable that they didn't want to help him. A lie about it leads one to think of what most lies signify--an intention of covering one's ass, or the ass of a compadre.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2004 07:50 pm
I have no idea why they lied, Sofia.

Neither do you.

We can only guess.

Clearly, your guess attributes sinister motives to Al Jazeera.


But I do not follow your logic - why would they do the interview at all if they wanted to protect him?

What are you saying changed?

Presumably they originally intended to show it.

CNN showing it did not result in his capture - why would Al Jazeera showing it have done so?

My guess would be that the material was so inflammatory that they were worried about the west's reaction if they showed it - as opposed to CNN, against whom the same accusations would not be made - at least not as stridently.

How did the intelligence authorities get it? Having it seemed to make no impact on their ability to find Bin Laden. Again, I do not follow your logic.


Ought British media not to have reported on Hitler between when he went into the Sudetenland and when Britain declared war? His intentions to overrun Europe were clear at that time - ought the American media not have interviewed him before the US finally joined the war? I think there is a fine line between news gathering and providing a platform for hate - but Bin Laden is certainly newsworthy!!!!! What he says is of interest to the world.

Many Arab citizens now consider Bush to be a criminal terrorist - ought their media not to be reporting him? Ought any reporters who interview him from these countries only do so if they pinpoint his position for those who would kill or capture him?

I know this analogy is rather starined - but I do think the news is supposed to be reported without fear or favour - and Al Jazeera, however inexpertly as yet - straddles THE huge political chasm of the moment - I think they will be drawing lots of fire from both sides - which probably means they are doing a not bad job. I hope they do not fall into the chasm and disappear.
0 Replies
 
Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2004 08:23 pm
dlowan wrote:
I have no idea why they lied, Sofia.

Neither do you.

We can only guess.
We can ask others what they think, which is what I'm doing. Do you have a problem with that?
Clearly, your guess attributes sinister motives to Al Jazeera.

Sinister? If you define protecting a disgusting, murderous thug sinister...
But I do not follow your logic - why would they do the interview at all if they wanted to protect him?
Ratings. Since they are about the only people, who will give him the courtesy of an interview--or either because they treat him so deferentially--not pestering him with questions like Oh, I don't know, "Isn't the murder of innocent women and children against Islamic law, or is it OK?
What are you saying changed?
They realized BL's rhetoric fell right into Bush's hands. Clips could be used for Bush's campaign commercials. The 'Americans freedom will be taken from them' line...? It would strength the resolve against BL.
Presumably they originally intended to show it.

CNN showing it did not result in his capture - why would Al Jazeera showing it have done so?
Who said it would?
My guess would be that the material was so inflammatory that they were worried about the west's reaction if they showed it - as opposed to CNN, against whom the same accusations would not be made - at least not as stridently.
Why would they be worried about the West's reaction? Was it BL or Al Jazeera talking?
How did the intelligence authorities get it? Having it seemed to make no impact on their ability to find Bin Laden. Again, I do not follow your logic.
You sure don't.

Ought British media not to have reported on Hitler between when he went into the Sudetenland and when Britain declared war? His intentions to overrun Europe were clear at that time
He was a country's leader at war. Not a terrorist, who had organised the murder of innocents with NO provocation, and vowed to do more. Pathetic.

Many Arab citizens now consider Bush to be a criminal terrorist - ought their media not to be reporting him? Ought any reporters who interview him from these countries only do so if they pinpoint his position for those who would kill or capture him?
This is so lame.
I know this analogy is rather starined - but I do think the news is supposed to be reported without fear or favour - and Al Jazeera, however inexpertly as yet - straddles THE huge political chasm of the moment - I think they will be drawing lots of fire from both sides - which probably means they are doing a not bad job. I hope they do not fall into the chasm and disappear.
Rather strained...?
0 Replies
 
Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2004 08:27 pm
Even Dan Rather would've asked a couple of questions...

AJ: Master, please give us insight on your righteous jihad against the infidels.
0 Replies
 
littlek
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2004 08:31 pm
Hobit Bob, please please put a warning in the title of this thread.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2004 08:33 pm
Sofia wrote:
dlowan wrote:
I have no idea why they lied, Sofia.

Neither do you.

We can only guess.
We can ask others what they think, which is what I'm doing. Do you have a problem with that?
Clearly, your guess attributes sinister motives to Al Jazeera.

Sinister? If you define protecting a disgusting, murderous thug sinister...
But I do not follow your logic - why would they do the interview at all if they wanted to protect him?
Ratings. Since they are about the only people, who will give him the courtesy of an interview--or either because they treat him so deferentially--not pestering him with questions like Oh, I don't know, "Isn't the murder of innocent women and children against Islamic law, or is it OK?
What are you saying changed?
They realized BL's rhetoric fell right into Bush's hands. Clips could be used for Bush's campaign commercials. The 'Americans freedom will be taken from them' line...? It would strength the resolve against BL.
Presumably they originally intended to show it.

CNN showing it did not result in his capture - why would Al Jazeera showing it have done so?
Who said it would?
My guess would be that the material was so inflammatory that they were worried about the west's reaction if they showed it - as opposed to CNN, against whom the same accusations would not be made - at least not as stridently.
Why would they be worried about the West's reaction? Was it BL or Al Jazeera talking?
How did the intelligence authorities get it? Having it seemed to make no impact on their ability to find Bin Laden. Again, I do not follow your logic.
You sure don't.

Ought British media not to have reported on Hitler between when he went into the Sudetenland and when Britain declared war? His intentions to overrun Europe were clear at that time
He was a country's leader at war. Not a terrorist, who had organised the murder of innocents with NO provocation, and vowed to do more. Pathetic.

Many Arab citizens now consider Bush to be a criminal terrorist - ought their media not to be reporting him? Ought any reporters who interview him from these countries only do so if they pinpoint his position for those who would kill or capture him?
This is so lame.
I know this analogy is rather starined - but I do think the news is supposed to be reported without fear or favour - and Al Jazeera, however inexpertly as yet - straddles THE huge political chasm of the moment - I think they will be drawing lots of fire from both sides - which probably means they are doing a not bad job. I hope they do not fall into the chasm and disappear.
Rather strained...?


Sofia - my post to you, which you appear to have interpreted as something which it was not, was perfectly polite and genuine series of questions.

I note that you seem unable to reply in the same mode.


I do not have a problem with you asking - and I have no idea why you have chosen to reply in this manner.

I was genuinely seeking to understand you.

I shall not bother with such a thing in future .
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2004 08:42 pm
But to comment on some of your points:

"He was a country's leader at war. Not a terrorist, who had organised the murder of innocents with NO provocation, and vowed to do more. Pathetic."

I am unsure on what basis you would make such a ridiculous claim about Hitler. Not organised the murder of innocents?

But this is a sidetrack on this thread.
0 Replies
 
Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2004 08:42 pm
Thank you.
I stopped short of suggesting it.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2004 08:44 pm
hobitbob wrote:
dlowan wrote:
Who are Novak and Blair?

Robert Novak exposed Valerie Plame as a CIA agent, after being tipped of by an anonymous source in the WH. She is the wife of the former ambassador who exposed the "aluminium tubes" story as yet another Bush lie.

Jason Blair was a reporter for the NY times who was fired for plagiarizing many of his stories, and fabricating the rest.



Hmmm - my question was more about what are considered normal journalistic ethics on interviewing someone who is wanted for a criminal matter.

Mind you - I am not at all sur ethat Bin Laden is "wanted" where Al Jazeera is based. Does anyone know?
0 Replies
 
Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2004 01:15 pm
dlowan wrote:
But to comment on some of your points:

"He was a country's leader at war. Not a terrorist, who had organised the murder of innocents with NO provocation, and vowed to do more. Pathetic."

I am unsure on what basis you would make such a ridiculous claim about Hitler. Not organised the murder of innocents?

But this is a sidetrack on this thread.

Interesting how you managed to slip this in after I'd posted a response. It wasn't here last night.

The one habit you have that has made inerchanges with you distasteful, is your constant attempts to intentionally misrepresent what I say, which you have repeated here. You are fully aware I didn't say Hitler had not organized the murder of innocents. Paraphrasing (cherry picking) the way you did changes the meaning of what I said, as you well know.

When a nation is at war, right or wrong, the elected leader is seen as the figurehead of a country. He obviously had the backing of Germany, and was not a terrorist--and I am not aware of exactly what facts were known about Hitler's atrocities on what date, nor the date when reporters stopped interviewing him. If you are in possession of this obscure information--perhaps sharing it will prove your point.

But don't worry about proving it to me. I prefer we leave things as they were before you inserted your last response to me. I have no problem with genuine disagreement. I have a sincere dislike for the intentional misrepresentation of someone's words to try to make some cheap, fake point.

But, this is a sidetrack to this thread.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2004 01:27 pm
Sofia wrote:
Interesting how you managed to slip this in after I'd posted a response. It wasn't here last night.


I don't know, what you mean here, Sofia:

both post are from 4:42 my local time, dlowan's ealier than yours.

I saw both at about 6:30, in exactly the way, they are to be seen now.
(You can change your own posts as long as you wish. This will only be noted in a small script at the bottom, when there is no response afterwards. But yours was there!)
0 Replies
 
Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2004 01:36 pm
642789 is the post I refer to.
Many times, I go back and check to see if there is anything between my post, and the one I'm responding to--because I have developed an unfortunate habit of responding to a post, without quoting it.

I want to make sure there is nothing between my post and the one I'm responding to.

I did this last night.

642789 was indeed not there. Had it been, I would most assuredly responded.

This is not the first time I've seen this phenomena--but it is the first time it has mattered to me.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2004 01:40 pm
That's peculiar, since your following post is No. 642790 [both posted in the same minute], followed by dlowan's two minutes later [ No. 642793 ]

Never heard of such before.
0 Replies
 
Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2004 01:52 pm
I know we're not supposed to be enabled to insert posts, and it is peculiar.

I can't say how it happened, and I can't prove whether it was intentional or some weird glitch--

The only thing I can say, is there was nothing between 781 and 790 last night for at least five minutes on my screen. I looked back a couple of times to check my content.

I've seen this happen a couple of other times, and thought it was just some odd glitch.

Anyhoo.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2004 02:25 pm
Its obviously a leftist conspitracy sponsored by al-Jazeera in attack aginst all right thinkng Americns. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
 

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