America Is Becoming Ungovernable.

@hawkeye10,

Let me ask this in SIMPLE terms hawkeye.

Do you agree that the ACA included GOP amendments? Yes or No?

@parados,

parados wrote:

Let me ask this in SIMPLE terms hawkeye.

Do you agree that the ACA included GOP amendments? Yes or No?

yes

Quote:

The final “Pelosi Government Healthcare Takeover” bill, H.R. 3962, moves a step further
away from bipartisanship by entirely removing a total of 12 Republican amendments (1
of which was bipartisan) and gutting numerous other amendments of the 27 that were
previously accepted in the Committees on Energy and Commerce and Education and
Labor (Ways and Means did not accept any Republican amendments). Of the 27
previously accepted in committees, 7 were bipartisan, and 20 were Republican only.

Only 5 Republican amendments survived fully intact (4 others that remained intact were
bipartisan) while 6 others were either significantly gutted or modified during the Pelosi
rewrite.

The compiled list below does not include the amendments that were withdrawn with the
agreement to work to incorporate them into the final bill (which for the most part were
also not included in the final bill).

http://rsc.scalise.house.gov/uploadedfiles/accepted_republican_amendments_in_hr_3200_vs__hr_3962_final__3_.pdf

but the test is the number of R's that voted to make this bill law. the answer is 0.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Quote:

but the test is the number of R's that voted to make this bill law. the answer is 0.

Why is that the test and the only answer? It is a ridiculous argument on your part that it proves Obama failed to compromise.

One could as easily argue that that is the test that proves the GOP refused to compromise since they clearly got some of the things they wanted.

1 Reply

@parados,

Quote:

One could as easily argue that that is the test that proves the GOP refused to compromise since they clearly got some of the things they wanted.

the GOP negotiated in an attempt to do a deal, but decided not to do the deal. The $1 trillion question is should Obama have walked away from the deal too once he knew he did not have R support? If he set the nation upon a path of conflict and likely collapse by not walking away history will not judge him kindly. he will almost certainly get rung up for zigging when he should have zagged, for running up America's healthcare spending for as far as the eye can see when we desperately need to shrink that spending.

3 Replies

@hawkeye10,

Quote:

. The $1 trillion question is should Obama have walked away from the deal too once he knew he did not have R support?

Why would he? They had done a deal and then they reneged on the deal. It is the fault of those that backed out. Not the person that accepted the deal and moved forward.

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

he will almost certainly get rung up for zigging when he should have zagged, for running up America's healthcare spending for as far as the eye can see when we desperately need to shrink that spending.

Making up "facts" to support your opinion doesn't help your argument hawkeye. Care to present evidence that the ACA has increased American health care spending beyond what it would have been without the ACA? Keep in mind even before the ACA was passed health insurance premiums were going up 39%.

0 Replies

@hawkeye10,

Am I wrong in thinking that a majority of congress makes the laws of the nation. Not a majority of republicans. Be careful what you wish for Hawk. They already have the power to shut down the government, just not the balls.

1 Reply

@RABEL222,

just because one can do something does not mean that they should. Obama is no Lyndon Johnson, a guy who was smart enough to know that successful lasting change towards progress (in his case The Great Society) requires building broad support before action is taken. Obama is way too much of an egotistical lazy prick for all that ****!

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Lyndon Johnson worked with people that kept their word when they reached an agreement. The current GOP is a group that will get 98% of what they want and then decide they really wanted 150% so the deal they worked out is no longer one they want to follow through with.

1 Reply

@parados,

neither side understands the need to compromise, which is why little gets done. but depending on how badly ObamaCare goes D's very well might end up wishing nothing got done here. proceeding without R Support for cover will if it goes bad leave D's open to a brutal two front R offensive, one being that government is incompetent and thus needs to be depowered and the other being that D's are driving America into a ditch through financial irresponsibility. ObamaCare will very quickly cost more than the R warmongering did.

we have to remember that the D's did ObamaCare back when they had some confidence that Obama knew what he was doing. this is not so true anymore.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Quote:

neither side understands the need to compromise, which is why little gets done. but depending on how badly ObamaCare goes D's very well might end up wishing nothing got done here

And depending on how well it goes the R's may well end up wishing they had supported it.

Your beliefs of how this will drive us into the ditch are not realistic hawkeye. I would be willing to bet that if the ACA continues for 5 years our spending for health care as a % of GDP will go down. That works out to an increase in GDP since it frees up money to be spent elsewhere. It could actually end up being an economic growth engine.

1 Reply

@parados,

we shall see, but given that Ohama has never shown any understanding of how healthcare costs are driving this nation to ruin I doubt it.the R's have not either but since they did not sign on to this law that is irrelavant, the D's will get all of the blame.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

The R's signed onto the system that was driving our nation to ruin by keeping the status quo.

2 Replies

@parados,

What a miserable bunch of pathetic whiners! Quit worrying about your greedy little selves. Think for a moment about the pain and suffering y'all bring to so many poor people around the planet.

Fer christ's sakes, you're just coming off the illegal invasion of two countries, myriad war crimes, the deaths of dog knows how many and you fuckers are whining about how tough life is for you.

1 Reply

@parados,

parados wrote:

The R's signed onto the system that was driving our nation to ruin by keeping the status quo.

the nation belongs to the people, maybe doing nothing is the right thing to do till the people can be convinced otherwise. lets remember that the D's did this without R support and with the support of half the people, that is a ******* dangerous space for the D's to inhabit. at the time they were sure that The Professor is brilliant and that everyone would love it when they saw it, but for a lot reasons Obama looks a lot less brilliant now.

1 Reply

@JTT,

JTT wrote:

What a miserable bunch of pathetic whiners! Quit worrying about your greedy little selves. Think for a moment about the pain and suffering y'all bring to so many poor people around the planet.

Fer christ's sakes, you're just coming off the illegal invasion of two countries, myriad war crimes, the deaths of dog knows how many and you fuckers are whining about how tough life is for you.

Clearly you're not whining, but what, exactly, are you doing to ease the pain and suffering of the poor victims of US agression?

Hectoring people on A2K?

Now that is bound to make you a hero in their eyes.

2 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

When you keep quoting JTT you make my ignoring him useless. Please stop.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

So you believe in the fallacious argument that government should only act when a majority thinks a certain way? That seems an odd argument since the majority thought we needed to make changes to the health care system.

1 Reply

@parados,

parados wrote:

So you believe in the fallacious argument that government should only act when a majority thinks a certain way? That seems an odd argument since the majority thought we needed to make changes to the health care system.

I believe that any government only has the right to act
after it has gained the consent of the people, and that in a democracy acts which are not supported by the the majority have sketchy consent status. be that as it may, any party that defies the majority and in doing so lands the nation in a jackpot will more often than not get reamed.

1 Reply

@McGentrix,

McGentrix, one of many US cowards.

Quote:

When you keep quoting JTT you make my ignoring him useless. Please stop.

Remember when you got both barrels for that stand, Finn?

1 Reply

America Is Becoming Ungovernable.

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