10
   

Kerry's Doomed Mideast Plan

 
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Fri 30 Aug, 2013 10:21 am
@Frank Apisa,
On that we disagree, I think it is possible for Israel to live in peace with its neighbours, but not until it ends the occupation and allows free access and self determination for the Palestinians.

Look at Europe today compared with sixty years ago, and those grievances were really deep rooted, going back thousands of years. This crap between Israel and Palestine only goes back 80-90 years or so.
Advocate
 
  0  
Reply Fri 30 Aug, 2013 10:39 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

On that we disagree, I think it is possible for Israel to live in peace with its neighbours, but not until it ends the occupation and allows free access and self determination for the Palestinians.

Look at Europe today compared with sixty years ago, and those grievances were really deep rooted, going back thousands of years. This crap between Israel and Palestine only goes back 80-90 years or so.


Of course, the big problem is that the Pals will only enter into an agreement that effectively spells out the demise of Israel. It is more than silly to expect Israel to enter into such an agreement.

BTW, I understand that thousands of Pals enter into Israel daily to work. Despite this, not a single Israeli may safely enter into the WB and Gaza.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Fri 30 Aug, 2013 01:00 pm
@Advocate,
You are full of crap. The Israelis go into the West Bank all the time mob handed and armed to the teeth. It's the Palestinians that aren't safe.

As for the peace process. This is from four days ago.

Quote:
Three Palestinians have been killed in clashes with Israeli forces in Qalandiya refugee camp in the West Bank.

Nineteen Palestinians were wounded in the confrontation,


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23839675
Advocate
 
  0  
Reply Fri 30 Aug, 2013 04:29 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

You are full of crap. The Israelis go into the West Bank all the time mob handed and armed to the teeth. It's the Palestinians that aren't safe.

As for the peace process. This is from four days ago.

Quote:
Three Palestinians have been killed in clashes with Israeli forces in Qalandiya refugee camp in the West Bank.

Nineteen Palestinians were wounded in the confrontation,


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23839675


Didn't your mother wash your mouth out with soap when you lied. Try the truth now and then.

This is from WikiTravel.

"If you do happen to drive to areas within the West Bank, take heed and uphold security precautions at all times. Palestinians regularly throw stones and even firebombs at cars traveling in the West Bank with Israeli license plates. Roads in the West Bank may not be in a good condition. Damage to cars resulted from driving in the West Bank may not be covered, as many insurance policies are invalid outside of Israel proper. "

Olivier5
 
  3  
Reply Fri 30 Aug, 2013 04:36 pm
@Advocate,
Quote:
not a single Israeli may safely enter into the WB

Hundreds of thousands Israelis live in the WB, in case you didn't know.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  3  
Reply Fri 30 Aug, 2013 04:54 pm
@Advocate,
I'm for the 4 states scenario. We just need to invade the ME and redraw the map better at the barrel of a gun like they did after WW2: Jews will have a state, Christians another, Shia a third and Sunnis the fourth.

That or we let 'm solve their own problems for how long as it takes, bombing here or there once in a while to even the score, or helping here or there a genuine local peace process. But the new I/P talks are pure showmanship. Israel does not want peace. Not at the cost of land anyway.
RABEL222
 
  2  
Reply Fri 30 Aug, 2013 10:10 pm
@oralloy,
Denial and insults dont make intelligent conversation.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Fri 30 Aug, 2013 10:30 pm
@Advocate,
Advocate wrote:
Didn't your mother wash your mouth out with soap when you lied. Try the truth now and then.

The anti-Semites are desperate to collapse the peace talks. If it looks as if peace might be about to be achieved, their lies will grow even more outrageous.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Fri 30 Aug, 2013 10:31 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
But the new I/P talks are pure showmanship.

Wrong. For the first time in more than 12 years, there is actual hope that peace will be achieved.

That's why you anti-Semites have been desperately spewing such outrageous lies about Israel. If peace is achieved, you're going to lose your favorite tool for attacking Jews.


Olivier5 wrote:
Israel does not want peace. Not at the cost of land anyway.

If you succeed in poisoning the peace process with your vile lies, the only outcome will be that the Palestinians still won't have a state.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Fri 30 Aug, 2013 10:37 pm
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:
Denial and insults dont make intelligent conversation.

Anti-Semites are not for conversing with. They are only good for spitting on.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Aug, 2013 01:57 am
@Advocate,
I have posted nothing but the truth, and posted links backing up the truth.

You're the one who has obfuscated and lied throughout. You've spent all your life hiding from the truth.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Sat 31 Aug, 2013 06:01 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

On that we disagree, I think it is possible for Israel to live in peace with its neighbours, but not until it ends the occupation and allows free access and self determination for the Palestinians.

Look at Europe today compared with sixty years ago, and those grievances were really deep rooted, going back thousands of years. This crap between Israel and Palestine only goes back 80-90 years or so.


We do disagree there, Izzy. In my opinion, the makings of peace between the two go way beyond "reasonable concessions" between the parties...and in any case, "reasonable concessions" are truly not in the cards...as both sides have shown themselves to be unable to meet on those kinds of grounds.

I note there are some others here who see the situation as better than it has been in some years. That kind of thinking is so delusional one has to refrain from calling it delusional out of fairness to people who are delusional.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Sat 31 Aug, 2013 06:06 am
@Advocate,
Advocate wrote:

izzythepush wrote:

On that we disagree, I think it is possible for Israel to live in peace with its neighbours, but not until it ends the occupation and allows free access and self determination for the Palestinians.

Look at Europe today compared with sixty years ago, and those grievances were really deep rooted, going back thousands of years. This crap between Israel and Palestine only goes back 80-90 years or so.


Of course, the big problem is that the Pals will only enter into an agreement that effectively spells out the demise of Israel. It is more than silly to expect Israel to enter into such an agreement.


You are almost correct here, Advocate. A significant number of the Palestinians will only enter into an agreement that spells the demise of Israel...IN THAT AREA. They would have no problem at all with a state of Israel being situated somewhere else..."not in their backyard", so to speak.

And most Israelis will only enter into an agreement that demands that a state of Israel...dominated by Jews...remain right where it is.

Both have a right to be that demanding.

And that is why there will continue to be hatred, rage, maiming and killing over there.

0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Sat 31 Aug, 2013 06:09 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
I note there are some others here who see the situation as better than it has been in some years.


I'm not one of them. Israel has become far more right wing, nationalistic and imperialistic since Yitzhak Rabin was murdered.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Sat 31 Aug, 2013 08:01 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
If you succeed in poisoning the peace process with your vile lies, the only outcome will be that the Palestinians still won't have a state.

You got the last part right but it won't have anything to do with you or me predicting that outcome.

Next you gona blame me for you mother's sore anus, but I swear I had nothing to do with it!
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Aug, 2013 09:22 am
I have a question.
IF the state of Israel were to agree to move to another part of the world, what then?
Since the have built the cities, the roads, the infrastructure, etc. would they be allowed to take what they want and destroy the rest?
Would they be allowed to return the area to the way it was in 1940, before the creation of Israel?

I am wondering if they did that, would the people that moved in there be able to rebuild the way they want, or would they continue to blame Israel for their own failures.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Sat 31 Aug, 2013 09:28 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
You got the last part right but it won't have anything to do with you or me predicting that outcome.

Predicting the outcome is not going to cause it.

But your horrific lies about Israel could help to cause it, by poisoning the atmosphere and causing squabbling right when the world needs magnanimity. And that is why you are doing it.


Olivier5 wrote:
Next you gona blame me for you mother's sore anus, but I swear I had nothing to do with it!

The idiom doesn't translate into English very well, but it is clear that you are being your usual mean-spirited sociopathic self.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Sat 31 Aug, 2013 09:50 am
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:
Since the have built the cities, the roads, the infrastructure, etc. would they be allowed to take what they want and destroy the rest?


That's exactly what they did in Gaza.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Aug, 2013 09:52 am
@mysteryman,
Quote:
I have a question.
IF the state of Israel were to agree to move to another part of the world, what then?

Pigs will fly.
0 Replies
 
Moment-in-Time
 
  3  
Reply Sat 31 Aug, 2013 12:04 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:

I doubt there will be peace in the Middle East no matter what. But the Jews and Arabs of that area got along relatively peacefully before the creation of the state of Israel...and there is no reason to suppose they could not get along that way if the state of Israel ceased to exist there.


One doesn't have to be prescient to realize your words have predictive value with respect to the rogue nation, Israel, an enduring headache. A self-absorbed behavior, Israel is a country that appear to subvert American foreign policy in the interest of the Zionist nation. With a deft hand Israel is sending a signal to the world it will never stop seizing Palestinian land and the rest of us had better get used to it.

This continued building of settlements on Palestinian land is a thorn in the side of Arabs everywhere....an insidious incitement. This phenomenon is worrying and disturbing, leading to contempt and scorn against Israel among all Arabs and its supporters. The Egyptian people so hated Israel that when their President, Anwar Sadat, visited Israel, after his return to his home, he was later assassinated.

The US is unwittingly in bed with Israel and as long as Israel has the US under its thumb, eventually, they will have the US (under a Republican president) going to war against Iran. This was the plan under GWB whose regime was administered by Dick Cheney and the NEOCONS, to clean up the Arab neighborhood so Israel could feel safe. But instead the neocons got bogged down in a quagmire in Iraq (those Iraqis opposed to the invasion fought back!) so they could not go on to Syria, Iran, and any other country they felt were a threat to Israel.

Israel, without reservation, continues seizing land, even during the time of VP Biden's visit during Obama's first term....Seemingly nothing can prevent the tiny little bugbear from stealing more and more land. The nervy little Zionist nation announced new settlements while VP Joe Biden was visiting Israel. This made the US/Hillary Clinton angry as hell and she went before the media complaining about the insult to the US VP Biden, and how ungrateful and insensitive Israel was. Israel, stuttering, realize it had made a mistake and apologized profusely. A couple of weeks later, the icky little country was right back at it.

I don't see how on earth there will ever be peace in the middle east with Israel appointing itself as Lord, God and Master of the area! I don't think the Arabs are going to roll over and play dead while Israel with the aid of the US walk all over them. I don't think PEACE is in the Zionist's future unless it returns to its 1967 borders.

Quote:
But you would rather suggest "eliminating" "people like me!"


Even though Advocate is apparently harmless with his ravings, (this being the world wide web) he does not appear to be the sharpest knife in the drawer......even if beyond a shadow of a doubt Advocate understood where you were coming from he's not about to concede you're correct. Admitting the truth to someone he's in disagreement with simply is not a part of his personality makeup.
 

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