AMERICANS JOLTED BY IRAQ ATROCITIES

"I find that many people attempt to win arguments in which they are wrong by changing the subject......" Brandon

Exactly what you do on most topics. :wink: [/color]

"I find that many people attempt to win arguments in which they are wrong by changing the subject......" Brandon

Exactly what you do on most topics. :wink: [/color]

"Rather than allow you to change the subject, I request yet again that you support with evidence your contention that the US military is targetting civilians for murder. However you attempt to obfuscate the issue, if you ignore repeated requests to back up what you have said, it should be clear to everyone that you simply cannot." BRANDON

Your problem is you inhabit a provincial mindset that prevents you from seeing both sides of the equation.

Not uncommon with Bush loyalists who scratch their heads in collective disbelief that Iraqis don't view US troops as liberators and resent being occupied by a foreign nation.

It's easy to imagine Bush loyalists like yourself shaking their heads and muttering, "Why doesn't everyone understand Bush is offering the Iraqis democracy? If a few thousand innocent Iraqis must die in the process, so what?"

This fantasy has been undermined by the reality of the reception U.S. troops seen inrecent weeks. It is delusional to think that America, which had launched a war and countless additional bombing raids on Iraq over the past decade, plus an economic embargo that killed a million or more Iraqis, would be welcomed with unreserved adoration.[/color]

Titus wrote:

"Rather than allow you to change the subject, I request yet again that you support with evidence your contention that the US military is targetting civilians for murder. However you attempt to obfuscate the issue, if you ignore repeated requests to back up what you have said, it should be clear to everyone that you simply cannot." BRANDON

Your problem is you inhabit a provincial mindset that prevents you from seeing both sides of the equation.

Not uncommon with Bush loyalists who scratch their heads in collective disbelief that Iraqis don't view US troops as liberators and resent being occupied by a foreign nation.

It's easy to imagine Bush loyalists like yourself shaking their heads and muttering, "Why doesn't everyone understand Bush is offering the Iraqis democracy? If a few thousand innocent Iraqis must die in the process, so what?"

This fantasy has been undermined by the reality of the reception U.S. troops seen inrecent weeks. It is delusional to think that America, which had launched a war and countless additional bombing raids on Iraq over the past decade, plus an economic embargo that killed a million or more Iraqis, would be welcomed with unreserved adoration.[/color]

You have asserted that the US is targetting civilians. This is a terribly serious charge. I have asked you several times now to support your statement with evidence. Every time I do, you try to change the subject. Despite all your attempts to becloud the issues, the obvious conclusion is that you've been making a lot of false statements and lack the integrity to admit that you have no evidence to support them.

Brandon9000 wrote:

Titus wrote:

"Rather than allow you to change the subject, I request yet again that you support with evidence your contention that the US military is targetting civilians for murder. However you attempt to obfuscate the issue, if you ignore repeated requests to back up what you have said, it should be clear to everyone that you simply cannot." BRANDON

Your problem is you inhabit a provincial mindset that prevents you from seeing both sides of the equation.

Not uncommon with Bush loyalists who scratch their heads in collective disbelief that Iraqis don't view US troops as liberators and resent being occupied by a foreign nation.

It's easy to imagine Bush loyalists like yourself shaking their heads and muttering, "Why doesn't everyone understand Bush is offering the Iraqis democracy? If a few thousand innocent Iraqis must die in the process, so what?"

This fantasy has been undermined by the reality of the reception U.S. troops seen inrecent weeks. It is delusional to think that America, which had launched a war and countless additional bombing raids on Iraq over the past decade, plus an economic embargo that killed a million or more Iraqis, would be welcomed with unreserved adoration.[/color]

You have asserted that the US is targetting civilians. This is a terribly serious charge. I have asked you several times now to support your statement with evidence. Every time I do, you try to change the subject. Despite all your attempts to becloud the issues, the obvious conclusion is that you've been making a lot of false statements and lack the integrity to admit that you have no evidence to support them.

You have chosen to attach the word purposely to Titus' statement.

This is your perception

The fact that civilians have been targetted along with military is irrefutable, whether purposeful or not. So many of them are after all blown to bits. You have caught that on the news, right?

Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

Titus wrote:

"Rather than allow you to change the subject, I request yet again that you support with evidence your contention that the US military is targetting civilians for murder. However you attempt to obfuscate the issue, if you ignore repeated requests to back up what you have said, it should be clear to everyone that you simply cannot." BRANDON

Your problem is you inhabit a provincial mindset that prevents you from seeing both sides of the equation.

Not uncommon with Bush loyalists who scratch their heads in collective disbelief that Iraqis don't view US troops as liberators and resent being occupied by a foreign nation.

It's easy to imagine Bush loyalists like yourself shaking their heads and muttering, "Why doesn't everyone understand Bush is offering the Iraqis democracy? If a few thousand innocent Iraqis must die in the process, so what?"

This fantasy has been undermined by the reality of the reception U.S. troops seen inrecent weeks. It is delusional to think that America, which had launched a war and countless additional bombing raids on Iraq over the past decade, plus an economic embargo that killed a million or more Iraqis, would be welcomed with unreserved adoration.[/color]

You have asserted that the US is targetting civilians. This is a terribly serious charge. I have asked you several times now to support your statement with evidence. Every time I do, you try to change the subject. Despite all your attempts to becloud the issues, the obvious conclusion is that you've been making a lot of false statements and lack the integrity to admit that you have no evidence to support them.

You have chosen to attach the word purposely to Titus' statement.

This is your perception

The fact that civilians have been targetted along with military is irrefutable, whether purposeful or not. So many of them are after all blown to bits. You have caught that on the news, right?

The word "targetting" means that it's purposeful. If the fact that the US is targetting civilians is "irrefutable," then why do you guys refuse to give a shred of evidence to support it? There should be all kinds of evidence to support things that are "irrefutable."

Do you really believe that every civilian casualty has been a surprise to coalition forces? Are you actually stating that you do not believe that when the military plans attacks or drops bombs on military targets that they don't realize there will be some civilian deaths as well?

The civilians are part of the target. The military knows this and even admits it, even if you won't. Pains may or may not be taken to minimize these civilian casualties but they are an acceptable fact of life to our military, our administration and our strategies.

As for proof, what more proof do you need than the film on tv, pictures in the media and statistics coming from our own government?

Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

Do you really believe that every civilian casualty has been a surprise to coalition forces? Are you actually stating that you do not believe that when the military plans attacks or drops bombs on military targets that they don't realize there will be some civilian deaths as well?

The civilians are part of the target. The military knows this and even admits it, even if you won't. Pains may or may not be taken to minimize these civilian casualties but they are an acceptable fact of life to our military, our administration and our strategies.

As for proof, what more proof do you need than the film on tv, pictures in the media and statistics coming from our own government?

I completely agree with you that the military knows that civilians will often die during their operations, just as every military has known it in modern times. That, however, is not what "targetting civilians" means.

Brandon9000 wrote:

Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

Do you really believe that every civilian casualty has been a surprise to coalition forces? Are you actually stating that you do not believe that when the military plans attacks or drops bombs on military targets that they don't realize there will be some civilian deaths as well?

The civilians are part of the target. The military knows this and even admits it, even if you won't. Pains may or may not be taken to minimize these civilian casualties but they are an acceptable fact of life to our military, our administration and our strategies.

As for proof, what more proof do you need than the film on tv, pictures in the media and statistics coming from our own government?

I completely agree with you that the military knows that civilians will often die during their operations, just as every military has known it in modern times. That, however, is not what "targetting civilians" means.

Now who won't admit they're wrong? Are we then to argue the meaning of targetting ad nauseum? How Clintonesque of you. :wink:

btw I just changed the subject and sidetracked you for an entire page.

never say never.