42
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
Thomas
 
  3  
Tue 20 Aug, 2013 10:18 am
@joefromchicago,
Pamela Jones, the founder of Groklaw, has been meaning to close down for years now. This is not the first time she announces the end of Groklaw. She did extremely good work at the intersection of software and the branches of the law that bear on it, so I'm sad to see her go. But I agree, this is not a case like those e-mail providers shutting down maybe two weeks ago because the government made it impossible to pursue their mission. Pamela Jones wanted to shut down, and the surveillance stories gave her a good reason to.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Tue 20 Aug, 2013 10:20 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Theresa May, the home secretary, will do a broadcast interview later about the Miranda affair, according to the BBC.

[I could quote her even before she's on air Very Happy ]
What I've said: I just saw the interview on SkyNews. She said what the home office twittered yesterday, just with some dozen more sentences.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Tue 20 Aug, 2013 10:38 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank says:
Quote:
You ought to try posting without hyperbole.


Then he immediately goes to hyperbole.

Quote:
Anyway, there are people who want to get onto an airplane without being searched. Their desire for personal privacy is such that they consider a search to be an unwarranted intrusion.

I think everyone who boards a plane ought to be subject to search.

0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Tue 20 Aug, 2013 11:26 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I seem to keep harping on the whole blame America for the Miranda detention but it reminds me of my least favorite story in the Bible where Adam blamed his eating the apple on the woman. I mean, as of right now, all we know is that whoever was given the heads up, might not have said, "hey, don't do that." If that means the Obama administration sanctioned it, so be it. But I don't understand the near desperation for finding a link of US involvement in the detention.
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Tue 20 Aug, 2013 11:26 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
An one US encrypted email company had shuted down completely and another shut their email service due to not wishing to betrayed their customers by obeying secret national security letters to do mass spying on them.

That's a lot different from a blogger shutting down her site because of vague fears that someone from the gubmint might be looking over her shoulder.

BillRM wrote:
Then how many billions/trillions do you think that US based cloud storage firms are going to loss in the upcoming decades when even US firms refused to trust their private business records to them?

I haven't the vaguest notion.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Tue 20 Aug, 2013 11:31 am
@revelette,
revelette wrote:

I seem to keep harping on the whole blame America for the Miranda detention...
I haven't blamed America but quoted from the Columbia Journalism Review, which is a bi-monthly publication of the Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism, "an American magazine for professional journalists" (quoting wikipedia).
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Tue 20 Aug, 2013 11:51 am
Quote:
http://i1334.photobucket.com/albums/w641/Walter_Hinteler/a_zps174ec08c.jpg

Guardian editors on Tuesday revealed why and how the newspaper destroyed computer hard drives containing copies of some of the NSA and GCHQ secret files leaked by Edward Snowden.

The decision was taken after a threat of legal action by the government that could have stopped reporting on the extent of American and British government surveillance revealed by the documents.

It resulted in one of the stranger episodes in the history of digital-age journalism. On Saturday 20 July, in a deserted basement of the Guardian's King's Cross offices, a senior editor and a Guardian computer expert used angle grinders and other household tools to pulverise the hard drives and memory chips on which the encrypted files had been stored.

As they worked, they were watched intently by technicians from the Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ) who took notes and photographs, but who left empty-handed.

The editor of the Guardian, Alan Rusbridger, had earlier informed government officials that other copies of the files existed outside the country and that the Guardian was neither the sole recipient nor steward of the files leaked by Snowden, a former NSA contractor. But the government insisted that the material be either destroyed or surrendered.

Twelve days after the destruction of the files, the Guardian reported on US funding of GCHQ eavesdropping operations and published a portrait of working life in the British agency's huge "doughnut" building in Cheltenham. Guardian US, based and edited in New York, has also continued to report on evidence of NSA co-operation with American telecommunications corporations to maximise the collection of data on internet and telephone users around the world.

The British government has attempted to step up its pressure on journalists, with the detention in Heathrow on Sunday of David Miranda, the partner of Glenn Greenwald, who has led the Guardian's US reporting on the files.
[...]
The compromise ultimately brought Paul Johnson, Guardian News and Media's executive director Sheila Fitzsimons, and one of its top computer experts, David Blishen, to the basement of its Kings Place office on a hot Saturday morning to meet two GCHQ officials with notebooks and cameras.

The intelligence men stood over Johnson and Blishen as they went to work on the hard drives and memory chips with angle grinders and drills, pointing out the critical points on circuit boards to attack. They took pictures as the debris was swept up but took nothing away.

It was a unique encounter in the long and uneasy relationship between the press and the intelligence agencies, and a highly unusual, very physical, compromise between the demands of national security and free expression.

But it was largely a symbolic act. Both sides were well aware that other copies existed outside the UK and that the reporting on the reach of state surveillance in the 21st century would continue. ... ... ...
Source and full report
JTT
 
  0  
Tue 20 Aug, 2013 12:05 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
It resulted in one of the stranger episodes in the history of digital-age journalism. On Saturday 20 July, in a deserted basement of the Guardian's King's Cross offices, a senior editor and a Guardian computer expert used angle grinders and other household tools to pulverise the hard drives and memory chips on which the encrypted files had been stored.

As they worked, they were watched intently by technicians from the Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ) who took notes and photographs, but who left empty-handed.


Now that senior editor and all the other higher ups at the Guardian are to be charged with not providing protective eye ware and gloves to the two workers. Plus endangering the health and safety of two government stooges, err, employees. They are expected to have to serve 20 to 40 years in prison.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Tue 20 Aug, 2013 12:50 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
From the pictures they broke up the computers as a whole.

Why would they break up computers as all that would be needed in to take the hard drives out and drill some large holes in them and or apply a blow torch.

Seems very strange on it face.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Tue 20 Aug, 2013 12:55 pm
@BillRM,
Because it was a compromise: either the Guardian did it or they took it.
Quote:
... Talks began with government officials on a procedure that might satisfy their need to ensure the material had been destroyed, but which would at the same time protect the Guardian's sources and its journalism.

The compromise ultimately brought Paul Johnson, Guardian News and Media's executive director Sheila Fitzsimons, and one of its top computer experts, David Blishen, to the basement of its Kings Place office on a hot Saturday morning to meet two GCHQ officials with notebooks and cameras. ...
BillRM
 
  1  
Tue 20 Aug, 2013 12:57 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
Because it was a compromise: either the Guardian did it or they took it.


Still does not make sense as removing the hard drives is simple to do and there is not need to break up what look like a mother board and other components.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  0  
Tue 20 Aug, 2013 01:41 pm
@BillRM,
If he is Canadian he is American. Maybe you should get out your map of the world.
RABEL222
 
  1  
Tue 20 Aug, 2013 01:45 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
This was a media person. I wonder what the outcry would have been if he was just some Joe Blow without media connections? Not nearly as rabid I would be willing to bet.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Tue 20 Aug, 2013 01:46 pm
@revelette,
I don't know where that's coming from Rev. That's not how it's being seen here. Our security forces did it. They're big boys, they can take the flak.
BillRM
 
  1  
Tue 20 Aug, 2013 02:26 pm
@RABEL222,
Quote:
If he is Canadian he is American


Who said he is a Canadian as far as I am aware he had always refused to give his nation of citizenship.
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Tue 20 Aug, 2013 04:51 pm
@izzythepush,
Mostly from just reading posters from yesterday. Read an awful lot about "puppets" and that sort of thing.

All in all, I guess blame is beside the point.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Tue 20 Aug, 2013 04:57 pm
Headed to court?Letter

Quote:
Lawyers for the partner of the Guardian journalist who exposed mass email surveillance have written to home secretary Theresa May and the head of the Metropolitan police warning them that they are set to take legal action over what they say amounted to his "unlawful" detention at Heathrow airport under anti-terror laws.

In their letter to May and Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe they warn they are seeking immediate undertakings for the return David Miranda's laptop and all other electronic equipment within seven days.

His lawyers at the London firm Bindmans are seeking an official undertaking that there will be "no inspection, copying, disclosure, transfer, distribution or interference, in any way with our client's data".

But they say if there has already been an inspection of his laptop and other equipment it should not be disclosed to any third party, domestic or foreign and should be kept secure pending the outcome of the legal action.

Miranda, whose partner Glenn Greenwald has been working since May with the National Security Agency whistleblower Edward Snowden, was transiting in Heathrow airport en route from Berlin to Brazil on Sunday when he was detained under schedule 7 of the Terrorism Act 2000.

He was questioned for nine hours and according to the letter had belongings including his mobile phone, laptop, memory sticks, smart-watch, DVDs and games consoles confiscated.

The letter says the decision to detain Miranda "amounted to a frustration of the legislative policy and objects of the Terrorism Act 2000" and was for "an improper purpose and was therefore unlawful".

Bindmans say if the undertakings are not given by Tuesday afternoon they will have no option but to seek an urgent interim injunction in the high court.

The lawyers say they will also be seeking a "quashing order" confirming that his detention was "unlawful" and a mandatory order that all data seized is returned and copies destroyed.

"The decisions to use schedule 7 powers in our client's case amounted to a grave and manifestly disproportionate interference with the claimant's rights" under European human rights legislation, the letter adds.

Gwendolen Morgan, the lawyer at Bindmans dealing with the case, said: "We have grave concerns about the decision to use this draconian power to detain our client for nine hours on Sunday – for what appear to be highly questionable motives, which we will be asking the high court to consider. This act is likely to have a chilling effect on journalists worldwide and is emphatically not what parliament intended schedule 7 powers to be used for."

Bindmans say the police used the anti-terror laws in order to have "deliberately bypassed" the normal statutory procedures for seeking confidential journalistic material such as court orders under the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984.

Using Pace police can get permission to search premises and seize property but some classes of material are protected, including journalistic material.

"The decision was a flagrant misuse of the defendant's statutory powers," says the letter, which is signed by Bindmans.

The letter says Miranda was detained by police for almost nine hours in a secure area at Heathrow airport, adding that this was an unlawful "deprivation of liberty" under article 5 of the European Convention of Human Rights.

A Guardian News & Media spokesperson said: "David Miranda has filed a legal claim with regard to his detention at Heathrow airport on Sunday 18 August under schedule 7 of the Terrorism Act. The Guardian is supportive of that claim."
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 20 Aug, 2013 07:15 pm
@JPB,
I wonder if heads will roll?
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Tue 20 Aug, 2013 08:43 pm
@JPB,
Where these people abuse their power like this, there really ought to be jail time or equally as good, gaol time.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Tue 20 Aug, 2013 11:22 pm
The White House says it would be 'difficult to imagine' US authorities adopting GCHQ tactic of demanding destruction of hard drives:

Snowden NSA files: US and UK at odds over security tactics as row escalates

Quote:
The White House distanced itself from Britain's handling of the leaked NSA documents when representatives said it would be difficult to imagine the US authorities following the example of Whitehall in demanding the destruction of media hard drives.

As a former lord chancellor said the Metropolitan police had no legal right to detain the partner of a Guardian journalist at Heathrow airport under anti-terror laws, the White House suggested it would be inappropriate for US authorities to enter a media organisation's offices to oversee the destruction of hard drives.
0 Replies
 
 

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