42
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Wed 7 Aug, 2013 01:46 pm
@Frank Apisa,
From an opinion in The Independent
Quote:
[...]Rather than heralding a new Cold War, this is actually of a piece with the unusual restraint exercised by both sides since Snowden first landed at Moscow’s Sheremetyevo airport. There was a time, in the real Cold War, where someone with Snowden’s intelligence background, seeking refuge in Moscow, would have been feted by the authorities as a trophy and settled in a lavish – by Soviet standards – flat close to the Kremlin. The authorities would have let slip no opportunity to remind Washington about their prize defector.

Snowden has been nothing but an embarrassment to today’s Kremlin. Putin is damned (by Washington and the American public) if he grants Snowden asylum or allows him free passage to a third country and damned (by human rights campaigners) if he does not. It is significant that Russia has so far granted Snowden only temporary asylum, has warned him not to use his information as propaganda against the US and has not paraded him once in public. His only appearance was to a small audience at a meeting chaired by Russian free-speech activists. The authorities stayed behind the scenes.

Both Obama and Putin are well aware of each other’s predicament, having discussed the case three times by phone. So long as Snowden is in Russia, a pall is bound to hang over US-Russian diplomatic relations. But so far a serious froideur has been averted. It should be a cause for optimism that Putin is trying so hard to keep relations with the US on an even keel.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Wed 7 Aug, 2013 02:35 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I tuned into RT earlier on today, they certainly were describing it as childish. They also linked it to the 5th anniversary of the conflict in South Ossetia where they said that for the first time since the collapse of the Soviet Union American hegemony was stopped in its tracks.

The BBC had a different angle, Obama never liked Putin anyway. This is for the home crowd to show he can cause a stir when he wants to, and get people on board for any future action re Israel and Iran.

Talking of Iran, Channel 4 did a report from Tehran, the sanctions haven't stopped the flow of luxury goods for the rich, but they are stopping essential medicines getting through. There have been a lot of preventable deaths.

Quote:
Tehran Times: Veteran playwright, director, and actor Mahmud Ostand-Mohammad died after a three-year battle with liver cancer at Tehran’s Jam Hospital on Thursday morning. He was aged 63.

Medical treatment for Ostand-Mohammad had been impeded by the sharp rise in the price of medicines necessary for cancer that occurred in Iran as result of the global sanctions against Iran, his daughter Mana previously said to several Persian news agencies.

Ostand-Mohammad was famous for his talent in writing stories about the everyday lives of Iranians in the plays he composed, which were based upon the basic principles of modern Western theater.


http://www.ibna.ir/vdcenn8zejh8fxi.1kbj.txt
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 7 Aug, 2013 02:43 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

I tuned into RT earlier on today, they certainly were describing it as childish. They also linked it to the 5th anniversary of the conflict in South Ossetia where they said that for the first time since the collapse of the Soviet Union American hegemony was stopped in its tracks.

The BBC had a different angle, Obama never liked Putin anyway. This is for the home crowd to show he can cause a stir when he wants to, and get people on board for any future action re Israel and Iran.

Talking of Iran, Channel 4 did a report from Tehran, the sanctions haven't stopped the flow of luxury goods for the rich, but they are stopping essential medicines getting through. There have been a lot of preventable deaths.

Quote:
Tehran Times: Veteran playwright, director, and actor Mahmud Ostand-Mohammad died after a three-year battle with liver cancer at Tehran’s Jam Hospital on Thursday morning. He was aged 63.

Medical treatment for Ostand-Mohammad had been impeded by the sharp rise in the price of medicines necessary for cancer that occurred in Iran as result of the global sanctions against Iran, his daughter Mana previously said to several Persian news agencies.

Ostand-Mohammad was famous for his talent in writing stories about the everyday lives of Iranians in the plays he composed, which were based upon the basic principles of modern Western theater.


http://www.ibna.ir/vdcenn8zejh8fxi.1kbj.txt


Izzy...I am sure you will be able to access many, many sites and columns calling the move "childish" or "inappropriate" or "disproportional."

But there will be plenty of people suggesting that this kind of response absolutely had to occur...and that the move taken is rather modest compared with what could have happened.

Russia bit our ass by granting asylum...we are letting them know we are not happy. Not a huge amount of damage done...but it was a message that had to be sent (to Americans as well as to the Russians)...and anyone thinking that the move must be viewed as childish is not thinking things through completely.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Wed 7 Aug, 2013 02:49 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I was just giving a more balanced view of what's going on. I mentioned the source, RT, Russian Television. I never said they weren't biased. I'm not RL, he's the one that swallows what they say hook line and sinker.

What's more disturbing is that the death of Mahmud Ostand-Mohammad was completely unreported by the western media. America/Russia namecalling is a bit of a sideshow.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 7 Aug, 2013 03:05 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

I was just giving a more balanced view of what's going on. I mentioned the source, RT, Russian Television. I never said they weren't biased. I'm not RL, he's the one that swallows what they say hook line and sinker.

What's more disturbing is that the death of Mahmud Ostand-Mohammad was completely unreported by the western media. America/Russia namecalling is a bit of a sideshow.


I understand, Izzy. That remark of mine was meant for a more universal "you"...and probably should have said, "If a person wants to..."

I had never heard of Mahmud Ostand-Mohammad...and do not feel qualified to comment. From what I read when I Googled his name, you are correct; his death should have been reported throughout the world.

The US/Russian sideshow probably has a few more acts left...but I would not be surprised to see some kind of exchange of expatriots...and some kind of agreement on extradition in the future to result from what is happening.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 7 Aug, 2013 03:05 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Kinda looking for a silver lining! Wink
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Wed 7 Aug, 2013 03:12 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
What's more disturbing is that the death of Mahmud Ostand-Mohammad was completely unreported by the western media.


The western media, save for a few, never reports the crimes of the US and the UK, Izzy.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  2  
Wed 7 Aug, 2013 03:19 pm
@edgarblythe,
For one thing none of the three are actually liberal. They are at best slightly right to middle of the road. We havent had a liberal president since Kennedy. In my opinion. Not interested in trying to defend a bunch of politicians who pass laws that that get them big contributions from moneyed rich which encompasses all politicians so I wont defend my opinion. GO ORAL BOY.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 7 Aug, 2013 03:36 pm
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:

For one thing none of the three are actually liberal. They are at best slightly right to middle of the road. We havent had a liberal president since Kennedy. In my opinion. Not interested in trying to defend a bunch of politicians who pass laws that that get them big contributions from moneyed rich which encompasses all politicians so I wont defend my opinion. GO ORAL BOY.


Johnson came after Kennedy...and he was more liberal than Kennedy.

One of the MAIN reasons there are not more liberal politicians and presidents is that LIBERALS have managed to make the very word "liberal" toxic to the American public.

That is not an easy thing to have done...but liberals have managed to do it.

I guess it can be argued that the nut-cases on the far right helped...but they were merely cheerleaders and urgers-on. The real damage was done by that lack of reality of the far left.

Now, those of us who actually want to see safety-net programs protected and expanded have to do it DESPITE the involvement of liberals rather than in conjuction with them.

Think about it: Just about every conservative politician in this country BRAGS about his/her conservatism...and accuses other conservative politicians running in primaries of not being conservative enough.

Can you imagine a liberal politician bragging about being a liberal...or claiming he/she is more liberal than an opponent in a primary fight.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  4  
Wed 7 Aug, 2013 03:39 pm
@RABEL222,
Bill Clinton and Obama are better Republicans than most Republicans. I want to vote for a Democrat next time.
RABEL222
 
  3  
Wed 7 Aug, 2013 03:53 pm
@edgarblythe,
Me too. Think it will happen in our lifetime? I get tired of picking the one I think will do the least damage. But I have been voting against elected house members.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 7 Aug, 2013 03:59 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

Bill Clinton and Obama are better Republicans than most Republicans. I want to vote for a Democrat next time.


Bill Clinton and Barak Obama are both Democrats.

Many Democrats and many liberals think Clinton and Obama are the same...or to the right of...most Republicans.

MOST REPUBLICANS...and damn near EVERY far right conservative are not so silly or naive. They know there is a HUGE difference between people like the Clintons and Obama...and the people they want in office.

The enemy of progressive legislation...of protection and expansion of the safety net programs...IS NOT THE FAR RIGHT.

It is the far left.

They have become loonies.
hingehead
 
  4  
Wed 7 Aug, 2013 04:23 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
The enemy of progressive legislation...of protection and expansion of the safety net programs...IS NOT THE FAR RIGHT.

It is the far left.


Wha....?
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Wed 7 Aug, 2013 04:26 pm
@hingehead,
And football is the game you play with wickets.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Wed 7 Aug, 2013 04:57 pm
@hingehead,
Yeah I know, that's an American perspective for you. David Cameron is to the left of Barack Obama, and he's definitely right wing. The centre ground has shifted to the right over here, but no way near as much.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 7 Aug, 2013 05:02 pm
@hingehead,
hingehead wrote:

Quote:
The enemy of progressive legislation...of protection and expansion of the safety net programs...IS NOT THE FAR RIGHT.

It is the far left.


Wha....?


The far left is doing more to damage liberalism...than the far right.

Not sure what you do not understand about that, Hingehead.

The far left made the word "liberal" into the dirty word it is today in politics...and in the body politic.

izzythepush
 
  3  
Wed 7 Aug, 2013 05:10 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
The far left made the word "liberal" into the dirty word it is today in politics...and in the body politic.




No, that was Nick Clegg.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Wed 7 Aug, 2013 05:21 pm
@Frank Apisa,
You're as up on this stuff as you are on the English language and the war crimes and terrorism of the US, Frank. In other words you are clueless.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Wed 7 Aug, 2013 05:57 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Not sure what you do not understand about that, Hingehead.


The typical oh so thorough Apisian explanation. You obviously understand now, Hinge.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Wed 7 Aug, 2013 08:24 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Yeah I know, that's an American perspective for you. David Cameron is to the left of Barack Obama, and he's definitely right wing. The centre ground has shifted to the right over here, but no way near as much.


bizarre, isn't it

the American centre has shifted so far to the right that the left is barely meeting the centre of the political spectrum
 

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