42
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
Olivier5
 
  4  
Tue 25 Aug, 2015 08:01 am
I like Ted Rall. But just as a way to show that cartoonists are easily accused of all sorts of ills, here is a little controversy he got himself involved in (among many others):

Racism and Comics: Good Intentions Aren't Enough
NOAH BERLATSKY DEC 2, 2013
Cartoonist Ted Rall didn't mean to offend with his ape-like depiction of Barack Obama, but he did ignore cartoons' history of spreading harmful, stereotypical images of black people.
http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2013/12/racism-and-comics-good-intentions-arent-enough/281966/

Ted Rall is a RACIST. Undeniable evidence (part 1)
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/03/1259786/-Ted-Rall-is-a-RACIST-Undeniable-evidence-part1#

Racism has no place on the left: Ted Rall edition (part 2)
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/05/1260237/-Racism-has-no-place-on-the-left-part2


Critique is easy, art is difficult...
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Fri 28 Aug, 2015 12:25 pm
FBI demanded Scandinavian countries arrest Edward Snowden should he visit
Quote:
The FBI demanded that Scandinavian countries arrest and extradite Edward Snowden if he flew to any of those countries and claimed asylum, newly released official documents reveal.
[...]
“The US Department of Justice is prepared to immediately draft the necessary paperwork to request the extradition of Snowden to the US from whichever country he travels to from Moscow,” the letter, dated 27 June, states. “The FBI expresses its gratitude … for any assistance that can be provided on this important matter.”

In a separate letter to the Norwegian foreign ministry on the same day, the US embassy in Oslo spelled out its request that the government of Norway should “effectuate the return of Mr Snowden to the United States by way of denial of entry, deportation, expulsion or other legal means”.

In a subsequent letter dated 4 July the embassy repeated its request that Snowden be arrested and extradited to the US under the 1977 extradition treaty between the two countries.

Snowden’s lawyer Ben Wizner told NRK he suspects that the US sent similar documents to most of Europe and other countries at the time.

Snowden has been invited to Norway next week to receive the Bjørnson Prize from the Norwegian Academy of Literature and Freedom of Expression, but he decided not to travel because he could not receive guarantees from the Norwegian government that he would not be extradited, the academy told NRK.

The Norwegian government said it had not replied to the requests from the FBI and the US embassy in Oslo to extradite Snowden because he had not come to Norway.

Julian Assange, the whistleblowing journalist wanted by the US for leaking thousands of diplomatic and military communications, sought asylum in the Ecuadorean embassy in London three years ago because of his fears of extradition to the US should he comply with Swedish demands to travel to Stockholm for interrogation over sexual assault allegations. Sweden has declined to issue a guarantee of his safety, arguing that Assange would be adequately protected by human rights legislation.

Informed by the Guardian about the NRK revelations, Thomas Olsson, one of Julian Assange’s legal team in Stockholm, said: “This shows the Americans are very determined to get their hands on people that they think have damaged their security or a threat to security policy, and that includes of course Julian Assange.”

A spokesperson for the Swedish police said the FBI’s request was a matter for the Prosecution Authority, which stated: “Normally the Swedish Prosecution Authority gets involved after a person is apprehended and the police need to contact a prosecutor in order to get the suspected under detention. The decision regarding extradition is taken by the Swedish government.”


revelette2
 
  1  
Fri 28 Aug, 2015 12:45 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
He is wanted by the US on legitimate charges regardless of being granted asylum by Russia.
BillRM
 
  1  
Fri 28 Aug, 2015 12:47 pm
@revelette2,
Quote:
legitimate charges


BULLSHIT
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Fri 28 Aug, 2015 06:22 pm
Snowden definitely is wanted on legitimate charges in the United States.

We have treaties with the countries in question...and the Justice Department is well within their rights to demand he be arrested and returned to the US.
BillRM
 
  2  
Fri 28 Aug, 2015 11:51 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
legitimate charges


Once more bullshit as far as legitimate is concern.
RABEL222
 
  1  
Sat 29 Aug, 2015 01:23 am
@BillRM,
I have said I will never call anyone on this forum stupid so I wont call you stupid. However you are dumb as a rock.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 29 Aug, 2015 04:29 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
legitimate charges


Once more bullshit as far as legitimate is concern.


They are legitimate charges, Bill.

Just relax...take a deep breath...and think about it.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Sat 29 Aug, 2015 04:31 am
@RABEL222,
Quote:
"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action."


The above quote from an unknown author sum the situation nicely as far as our current government and it reach for ever more power using terrorism as an excuse to attack our right to privacy.

Snowden is a hero who was willing to teared up his life to warn his fellow citizens of the secret actions of our government that is aimed far more at our freedoms then to a war on terror as none of this massive and random spying had proven useful in that war.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 29 Aug, 2015 04:35 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action."


The above quote from an unknown author sum the situation nicely as far as our current government and it reach for ever more power using terrorism as an excuse to attack our right to privacy.

Snowden is a hero who was willing to teared up his life to warn his fellow citizens of the secret actions of our government that is aimed far more at our freedoms then to a war on terror as none of this massive and random spying had proven useful in that war.


"Government" is the reason we are able to live together in large groups.

This "government is the problem" crap is just the result of allowing someone as incompetent as Ronald Reagan to become president.

Government, like it or not, is your friend. Without it, we would not be civilization (defective as it is)...but would be chaos.
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Sat 29 Aug, 2015 05:19 am
@Frank Apisa,
That the FBI demanded Scandinavian and other countries to arrest and extradite Edward Snowden has nothing to do with the actual US-government and the governments of those countries nor really with previous governments but with international and bi-lateral treaties.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 29 Aug, 2015 05:58 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

That the FBI demanded Scandinavian and other countries to arrest and extradite Edward Snowden has nothing to do with the actual US-government and the governments of those countries nor really with previous governments but with international and bi-lateral treaties.


Walter...the DOJ was within its rights to demand the arrest and extradition to the US of Edward Snowden.

If you want to debate what makes it "within its rights"...fine.

I actually do not care what makes it "within its rights."

They did it...and if Snowden is ever arrested and returned (by the Scandinavians or anyone else)...I hope he gets a fair trial on the legitimate charges that have been brought against him.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Sat 29 Aug, 2015 06:34 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
If you want to debate what makes it "within its rights"...fine.
No. I just wanted to unterline that it has been "legitimate", in line with treaties.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Sat 29 Aug, 2015 11:30 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
Quote:
legitimate charges

BULLSHIT

The United States has the right to prosecute criminals when they break the law.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Sat 29 Aug, 2015 11:38 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
Snowden is a hero who was willing to teared up his life to warn his fellow citizens of the secret actions of our government

Snowden exposing the specific methods of our intelligence agencies did nothing to warn citizens that spying was going on. We all already knew that the spying was going on.

What Snowden did when he exposed the specific methods of our intelligence agencies was tell his terrorist buddies how to evade our surveillance.


BillRM wrote:
that is aimed far more at our freedoms then to a war on terror

The NSA is not part of a plot to take away our freedom. They are tying to protect us from the terrorists.


BillRM wrote:
as none of this massive and random spying had proven useful in that war.

It was very useful before you guys wrecked the program.
BillRM
 
  2  
Sat 29 Aug, 2015 02:47 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
What Snowden did when he exposed the specific methods of our intelligence agencies was tell his terrorist buddies how to evade our surveillance.


Nonsense as using email accounts as dead drops and using strong encrypting and TOR and any of the other methods such as throw away phone and so on and on is known by anyone who care to do the research.

The only thing the government can do with it mass spying is to target people who are not doing illegal acts and therefore are not taking protected steps.
oralloy
 
  0  
Sat 29 Aug, 2015 05:34 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
Nonsense as using email accounts as dead drops and using strong encrypting and TOR and any of the other methods such as throw away phone and so on and on is known by anyone who care to do the research.

That does not change the fact that Snowden told the terrorists what specific measures the government was using to track them.

Some of the programs that Snowden damaged/destroyed were measures against the very things you listed.


BillRM wrote:
The only thing the government can do with it mass spying is to target people who are not doing illegal acts and therefore are not taking protected steps.

Before Snowden wrecked the phone metadata program, the government was able to use it to confirm whether a given lead was promising or a dead end, which helped to focus resources where they were most needed.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Sat 29 Aug, 2015 06:12 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
Before Snowden wrecked the phone metadata program, the government was able to use it to confirm whether a given lead was promising or a dead end, which helped to focus resources where they were most needed.


Looks to me that NSA collects everything because it can not figure out what is important, and then it gets buried in data.

Not knowing the value and/or meaning of things is a very common problem now. We have tons of data at our fingertips, but generally people are astonishingly stupid, much more so than has been the case in generations.
BillRM
 
  1  
Sat 29 Aug, 2015 06:24 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
Before Snowden wrecked the phone metadata program, the government was able to use it to confirm whether a given lead was promising or a dead end, which helped to focus resources where they were most needed.


There had been zero evidence that the massive collection of date had been of any help at all and that go before Snowden and after Snowden released information.

In fact all known facts point to the fact that such programs as far as terrorism is concern is a huge waste of resources.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Sat 29 Aug, 2015 06:26 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
There had been zero evidence that the massive collection of date had been of any help at all and that go before Snowden and after Snowden released information.
The way I have heard it the NSA and their bosses were sure that if they collected everything they would be able to put the best computers and the best brains together to figure out what to do with it. However, they have so far almost completely failed.
 

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