Snowdon is a dummy

@Walter Hinteler,

I see.

So you think an individual should be able to determine when it is okay to steal classified government documents...and plaster them around the world for all to read.

Interesting, Walter.

Snowden deserves a fair trial. One that conforms to the laws now in place.

I hope he gets it.

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@Frank Apisa,

Oh...

...and in my opinion, Snowden is not a dummy...which, of course, is the subject of this thread.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

So you think an individual should be able to determine when it is okay to steal classified government documents...and plaster them around the world for all to read.

Snowden didn't "plaster them around the world for all to read". Or did I miss that?

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@Walter Hinteler,

You missed it, Walter.

You must have been busy with all your work here in A2K.

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@Frank Apisa,

Can you give me a source, please? That really would be good to know, since I always have to wait until the Guardian, Spiegel, or NYT publish some of the documents.

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@Walter Hinteler,

If you cannot find a source, Walter...

...you are not trying hard enough.

You want someone to jump through hoops for you...ya gotta try someone else.

If you think Snowden did not steal any classified documents from the US government...or if you think did steal them but kept them secret from the world...

...you really need professional help.

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@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:

What specific information did he reveal that directly compromised the US' counter terrorism operations?

He told the terrorists the specific things that the US was doing to try to intercept their communications.

As far as I can tell, all that Snowden disclosed was the mass surveillance programs implemented for the purposes of counter-terrorism. These programs are very general in their wide scope.

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WikiLeaks unveiled a bombshell series of purportedly classified National Security Agency (NSA) reports on Tuesday that indicate the US eavesdropped on the communications of France's last three presidents, as well as the country's ambassador to Washington and several cabinet ministers.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Quote:

PARIS — WikiLeaks published documents late Tuesday that it says shows the United States National Security Agency eavesdropped on the last three French presidents.

There was no immediate confirmation of the accuracy of the documents released in collaboration with Libération, a left-leaning French newspaper, and the investigative website Mediapart.

A WikiLeaks spokesman, Kristinn Hrafnsson, told The Associated Press he was confident the documents were authentic, saying that WikiLeaks’ previous mass disclosures have proved to be accurate.

Claudine Ripert-Landler, a senior spokeswoman for President François Hollande of France, said on Tuesday night that Mr. Hollande would convene “the Defense Council to evaluate the nature of the information reported in the media and draw the necessary conclusions.” The council, which is similar to the United States National Security Council, was expected to meet Wednesday morning. There was no immediate comment from the White House or from former President Jacques Chirac.

Source

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@Walter Hinteler,

Quote:

But here I got the idea that it worked the other way around: the 1917 Espionage Act has been dug out for Snowden in my opinion

Bradley Manning was charged and convicted of The 1917 Espionage Act.

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@revelette2,

Yes, Bradley Manning was charged and convicted under the 1917 Espionage Act, and the US Justice Department decided to file espionage charges against the whistleblower Edward Snowden under the same act, like a couple of others before. (Ten people in American history have been charged with espionage for leaking classified information.)

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@Walter Hinteler,

To read these documents was quite interesting (for me, certainly not for those involved).

Since "Libération" and "Médiapart" have announced to publish the documents about the economic espionage by NSA in France next ...

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@Walter Hinteler,

Well then Snowden wasn't singled out for the 1917 Espionage Act. Snowden's lawyers can argue the charges do not fit Snowden's actions. If they win the argument, then perhaps they can use the public good defense.

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@revelette2,

Apropos lawyers: I haven't read anything from them since weeks.

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@Walter Hinteler,

The news about Wikileaks re US/France is top of the news here.

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@ehBeth,

Came too late for most printed papers here - besides, of course ...

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@Walter Hinteler,

Quote:

Barack Obama has assured the French president, François Hollande, that American intelligence services are no longer tapping his phone. ...

But a vaguely worded statement released shortly afterwards by the White House failed to clarify whether the National Security Agency was still bugging the conversations and emails of other French diplomats and officials.

Source

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@Walter Hinteler,

Anyone in government...anywhere in the world...for whatever country, big or small; rich or poor; democratic or despotic...

...who thinks he/she is not a target of spying and eavesdropping...

...ought to find another line of work...

...because such a person is too naive for government work.

This entire spying/eavesdropping fiasco is a laugh to anyone with any sense of proportion, pragmatism, and practicality.

It is going to happen...and if the French president thinks it is now on the back burner because of assurances given by our president...

...he ought to hang his head in shame.

I think that not to be the case though.

Revelations came forth...OF THE OBVIOUS...and had to be answered both for the politicians of France and of the United States. The postures were made...the promises given...the smiles and reconciliation evidenced...

...and the spying and eavesdropping will continue without the tiniest bit of abatement.

Or at least that is my guess...and my fervent hope.

It is the way the world works...the way it must work right now.

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@Frank Apisa,

Might all be so. Or not.
But it certainly doesn't have a positive effect.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

Le Point magazine pointed out that France spends about €1bn (£700m) a year on its secret and intelligence services, compared with €60bn the US spends. It said this illustrated a “difference of means, but not of methods” and said the WikiLeaks revelations were nothing new.

“The secret and intelligence services have always had the role of discovering and sending to political leaders, diplomats and military personnel information allowing them to make their decisions,” it wrote. “The brutal fact is, being allies over one thing doesn’t mean we share everything or hold back on spying on our little friend.”

Bernard Debré, a member of Sarkozy’s opposition Republican party, went further, writing on his blog: “Politicians are astonished to have been spied on by the Americans! It’s a bloody hypocrisy. For years everyone has been listened in on by the NSA, the NSA has been accused by senators and governors and has drastically reduced its activity … and at the same time, France is going in the opposite direction.”

Arnaud Danjean, a former member of France’s intelligence service, the DGSE, and now an MEP for the Republican party, said there was nothing new in the revelations.

From Walter's link.

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Snowdon is a dummy

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