42
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Sat 20 Jun, 2015 08:26 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

I'm not going around in circles with you Frank. He was tortured therefore the trial was not fair. It's very simple. Now you can splutter and deny all you want much that's just how it is.




Well you are wrong, Izzy, but that's okay. You often are.

0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Sat 20 Jun, 2015 10:23 am
Well, the subject of Snowden getting a fair trial has been talked to death imo, unless of course he actually returns or something.

Has anything else happened in Germany or the UK in regards to Snowden or related events?
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sat 20 Jun, 2015 11:58 am
@revelette2,
A bit from the last days (reports in English)

The NSA in Germany: Snowden's Documents Available for Download

Spying Together: Germany's Deep Cooperation with the NSA

German parliament's NSA probe enters 'neutral' stage
RABEL222
 
  -1  
Sat 20 Jun, 2015 12:24 pm
@izzythepush,
Like I said a bull shyt answer to a straight forward statement. You are in constant attack mode and answer with insults. I think Frank has you pegged. You hate the U S and nothing good can be done by us, in your opinion.
revelette2
 
  1  
Sat 20 Jun, 2015 12:51 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
I didn't click on the documents but is every single file Snowden stole from the US classified files available for anyone to download? I thought Snowden and Greenwald said they kept the information which would help terrorist and wouldn't publish it (something like that). I thought that was bad enough, leaving it in the hands of those who are neither approved nor qualified to make those decisions, but now just anyone can download and read everything regardless of how it harms lives? I suppose you all think that is good thing. Horrible in my opinion.

Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sat 20 Jun, 2015 12:55 pm
@revelette2,
Quote:
In Edward Snowden's archive on NSA spying activities around the world, there are numerous documents pertaining to the agency's operations in Germany and its cooperation with German agencies. SPIEGEL is publishing 53 of them, available as PDF files.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sat 20 Jun, 2015 12:58 pm
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:
I thought Snowden and Greenwald said they kept the information which would help terrorist and wouldn't publish it (something like that). I thought that was bad enough, leaving it in the hands of those who are neither approved nor qualified to make those decisions, but now just anyone can download and read everything regardless of how it harms lives? I suppose you all think that is good thing. Horrible in my opinion.
I think that even I gave links to some dozen documents here .... via the NYT, the Guardian and Spiegel.
Actually that's the basis for all the information we have got.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  0  
Sat 20 Jun, 2015 02:50 pm
@RABEL222,
It was straight forward insult and I responded accordingly.

Stick your head in the sand, it's the easy thing to do.
InfraBlue
 
  3  
Sat 20 Jun, 2015 08:54 pm
As far as I can tell the information that Snowden revealed was the mass surveillance that the NSA was perpetrating.

What specific information did he reveal that directly compromised the US' counter terrorism operations?
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Sun 21 Jun, 2015 10:54 am
If it was not clear before news that China is continuously successfully hacking US government computers ( and in the latest case being in for a year) proves that the efforts of the NSA have been misguided. I understand that I am a critic of the US government, but even for me the incompetence of the NSA has been spellbinding. And money has nothing to do with it, these people have had for years gobs of money to spend, they just suck at their jobs.
revelette2
 
  1  
Sun 21 Jun, 2015 12:51 pm
@InfraBlue,
Well, there must have been something else because the UK government felt the need to remove some agents because of the Snowden files. A link was left the other day to that effect.

There has been reports from different sources without being too specific (they almost never are) the following is an example of one.

Quote:
WASHINGTON — A classified Pentagon report concludes that leaks by former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden have set back U.S. efforts against terrorism, cybercrime, human trafficking and weapons proliferation, leaders of the House Intelligence Committee say.

A damage assessment by the Defense Intelligence Agency indicates most of the estimated 1.7 million classified documents that officials say Snowden copied from NSA computers involve U.S. military operations, said committee Chairman Mike D. Rogers (R-Mich.) and the ranking Democrat, Rep. C.A. Dutch Ruppersberger of Maryland.

Until now, the leaks have chiefly revealed NSA surveillance systems aimed at foreign governments and their leaders and at terrorism suspects in the U.S. and abroad. Military operations have largely escaped notice. But the NSA, which is part of the Pentagon, is both a combat support and intelligence agency.

The assessment, sent to the House and Senate intelligence committees Monday, described the preliminary conclusions of a task force set up to assess the impact of the leaks on the military


source
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sun 21 Jun, 2015 01:11 pm
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:
Well, there must have been something else because the UK government felt the need to remove some agents because of the Snowden files. A link was left the other day to that effect.
Anonymous sources were said to have told the Sunday Times that ....
I do think, there's a difference between a fact and some newspaper gossip.
revelette2
 
  1  
Sun 21 Jun, 2015 01:16 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Ok, scratch that. Nevertheless unless we are not to believe Pentagon reports or congress or anyone is those capacities, then the stolen Snowden Files have had a negative impact on things other than the surveillance programs.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Sun 21 Jun, 2015 01:20 pm
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:

Ok, scratch that. Nevertheless unless we are not to believe Pentagon reports or congress or anyone is those capacities, then the stolen Snowden Files have had a negative impact on things other than the surveillance programs.


The governments ability to spy on its citizens without cause, consent or effective supervision has been negatively impacted.
RABEL222
 
  0  
Mon 22 Jun, 2015 12:39 am
@izzythepush,
So either agree with you completely or go away?
izzythepush
 
  1  
Mon 22 Jun, 2015 01:46 am
@RABEL222,
Don't talk rubbish, you're either deliberately misinterpreting or just not understanding what I say, and I really can't be bothered to educate you, it's just not worth the effort.
revelette2
 
  1  
Mon 22 Jun, 2015 06:54 am
@RABEL222,
What he is actually saying is no better, either we see these issues discussed here on the Snowden side so to speak or we are choosing to either stick our heads in the sand (like an ostrich) or being led around like blind sheep. Typical rubbish to put it in his language. This is an intolerant thread for dissenting views.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Mon 22 Jun, 2015 08:54 am
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:
Has anything else happened in ... the UK in regards to Snowden or related events?


GCHQ's surveillance of two human rights groups ruled illegal by tribunal
Quote:
Agency violated its own procedures by retaining emails, investigatory powers tribunal rules in case brought forward following Edward Snowden revelations

GCHQ’s covert surveillance of two international human rights groups was illegal, the judicial tribunal responsible for handling complaints against the intelligence services has ruled.
revelette2
 
  0  
Mon 22 Jun, 2015 09:54 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Somehow this is going to end up being the US's fault, but in any case, from what I understand the intercept and the examination were legal but they held on to it for too long?
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Mon 22 Jun, 2015 11:00 am
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
oralloy wrote:
InfraBlue wrote:
The PATRIOT Act allows for wiretaps of telephones without court order.

Cite?

Wikipedia refers to searched telephone records specifically in regard to the government not needing court orders: "Opponents of the law have criticized its authorization of ...the expanded use of National Security Letters, which allows the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) to search telephone, e-mail, and financial records without a court order..."(Patriot Act, details.).

"Looking at telephone records" is quite a long ways from "wiretapping a telephone".


InfraBlue wrote:
oralloy wrote:
InfraBlue wrote:
It doesn't authorize phone metadata collection.

Patriot Act Section 215: Access to records and other items under FISA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_summary_of_the_Patriot_Act,_Title_II#Section_215:_Access_to_records_and_other_items_under_FISA

The only mention of phone metadata in that article is that the Second Court of Appeals ruled that the Patriot Act did not authorize the bulk collection of phone metadata.

Phone metadata is records of phone calls. Section 215 of the patriot act allows the collection of records.

This is why the fight over phone metadata dealt only with section 215 of the PATRIOT Act, and not with any other section of any other law.


InfraBlue wrote:
oralloy wrote:
InfraBlue wrote:
PRISM is the phone metadata collection program.
oralloy wrote:
I thought PRISM was something about recording everything on the internet.

"PRISM is a government code name for a data-collection effort known officially by the SIGAD US-984XN.[5][6] The PRISM program collects stored Internet communications based on demands made to Internet companies such as Google Inc. under Section 702 of the FISA Amendments Act of 2008 to turn over any data that match court-approved search terms.[7] The NSA can use these PRISM requests to target communications that were encrypted when they traveled across the Internet backbone, to focus on stored data that telecommunication filtering systems discarded earlier,[8][9] and to get data that is easier to handle, among other things.[10]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_%28surveillance_program%29

Yeah, that's the phone metadata collection that Snowden revealed.

No, PRISM deals specifically with internet communications and has nothing whatsoever to do with phone calls or phone-related metadata.


InfraBlue wrote:
oralloy wrote:
InfraBlue wrote:
The threat of abuse by the government of this enormous power that it granted to itself is too great to be accepted.

The threat would have been minimal with Congressional and judicial oversight of the programs.
But oh well. We'll learn to get along without such oversight.

The executive, legistative and judicial branches of this regimes are all violators of the Constitution. Expect more whistle-blowers to expose this regimes' machinations.

Hard to see how Congress and the courts could be violating the Constitution by merely passing laws and providing judicial oversight.

Hard to see any Constitutional violations by the executive branch as well, considering the oversight that had been given.

Expect the US government to kill any of these whistleblowers who manage to escape a long prison sentence.
 

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