Snowdon is a dummy

@RABEL222,

Quote:

... I have always suspected that he sold information to Russia and China as well as lesser info to the media.

That thought never entered my mind, Rabel, that Snowden would deliberately give US governmental classified documents to Russia or China. I did believe Snowden to be particularly vulnerable once in Hong Kong because the latter is under the sovereignty of China and penetrating encryption files is their middle name; also, Russia has spies everywhere, just like the US. After being stranded in Moscow, he was supposed to be empty-handed. Snowden was supposed to have given all his secrets to Glenn Greenwald and another lady journalist prior to being trapped in Sheremetyevo International Airport in Moscow. Yet, hearing this new info regarding Snowden's encryption files does not surprise me in the least. In my opinion, Edward Snowden's and what he had to offer was a goal mine for the Russians and any other country seeking United States undisclosed confidential classified files.

1 Reply

@korkamann,

"That thought never entered my mind, Rabel, that Snowden would deliberately give US governmental classified documents to Russia..."

Like somebody said on the News today, they weren't going to take him in, then leave him alone to play golf all day.
You can rest assured that what he khew, they now know.

1 Reply

@Lordyaswas,

Quote:

Like somebody said on the News today, they weren't going to take him in, then leave him alone to play golf all day.
You can rest assured that what he knew, they now know.

Touché!

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@Walter Hinteler,

We don't really know if they didn't tell the US, but I can see why they might not want to officially publish the information.

I always thought those files were a lot more important than just information about the US's vast spying activities.

1 Reply

@revelette2,

revelette2 wrote:

We don't really know if they didn't tell the US, but I can see why they might not want to officially publish the information.

Usually, secret services say nothing in public. But I'm sure, the USA would like to prosecute against Snowden with some even harder accusations.

Besides other points: how did those anonymous British officials know that China and Russia learned things from the Snowden files as opposed to all the other hacking and spying done by those countries?

3 Replies

@Walter Hinteler,

Snowden files 'read by Russia and China': 5 questions for UK government

Quote:

1. Is it true that Russia and China have gained access to Snowden’s top-secret documents? If so, where is the evidence?
[...]
2. Why have the White House and the US intelligence agencies not raised this?
[...]
3. Why have these claims emerged now?
[...]
4. Why is the Foreign Office not mentioned as a source?
[...]
5. What about the debatable assertions and at least one totally inaccurate point in the Sunday Times piece?
[...]

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@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:
The PATRIOT Act allows for wiretaps of telephones without court order.

Cite?

Wikipedia refers to searched telephone records specifically in regard to the government not needing court orders: "Opponents of the law have criticized its authorization of ...the expanded use of National Security Letters, which allows the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) to search telephone, e-mail, and financial records without a court order..."(Patriot Act, details.).

oralloy wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:
It doesn't authorize phone metadata collection.

Patriot Act Section 215: Access to records and other items under FISA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_summary_of_the_Patriot_Act,_Title_II#Section_215:_Access_to_records_and_other_items_under_FISA

The only mention of phone metadata in that article is that the Second Court of Appeals ruled that the Patriot Act did not authorize the bulk collection of phone metadata.

oralloy wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:
PRISM is the phone metadata collection program.
oralloy wrote:
I thought PRISM was something about recording everything on the internet.

"PRISM is a government code name for a data-collection effort known officially by the SIGAD US-984XN.[5][6] The PRISM program collects stored Internet communications based on demands made to Internet companies such as Google Inc. under Section 702 of the FISA Amendments Act of 2008 to turn over any data that match court-approved search terms.[7] The NSA can use these PRISM requests to target communications that were encrypted when they traveled across the Internet backbone, to focus on stored data that telecommunication filtering systems discarded earlier,[8][9] and to get data that is easier to handle, among other things.[10]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_%28surveillance_program%29

Yeah, that's the phone metadata collection that Snowden revealed.

oralloy wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:
The threat of abuse by the government of this enormous power that it granted to itself is too great to be accepted.

The threat would have been minimal with Congressional and judicial oversight of the programs.

But oh well. We'll learn to get along without such oversight.

The executive, legistative and judicial branches of this regimes are all violators of the Constitution. Expect more whistle-blowers to expose this regimes' machinations.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Quote:

Besides other points: how did those anonymous British officials know that China and Russia learned things from the Snowden files as opposed to all the other hacking and spying done by those countries?

I don't know, pretty good question. Maybe some other news investigators (are they around anymore?) will follow up on the story and find out some more information on it. Surely since Snowden's name is mentioned along with Russia and China, Snowden will have something to say about it?

1 Reply

@revelette2,

The timing is a bit suspicious to say the least.

Quote:

The US says it faces a "dedicated adversary" and an "ever evolving threat" to the nation's cyber security, after a major data breach.

The hacking of federal government computers may have compromised the records of four million employees.

US officials have blamed China for the attack, but the Chinese have denied any involvement.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-33028158

This is dated 5th June, and then just over a week later it's all blamed on Snowden, sounds awfully convenient to me.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

I haven't kept up with the story too much, but I don't recall Snowden being mentioned in connection with China hacking into US federal employees (I think that is what they hacked into) Anyway, I am not surprised you think it is suspicious. I suppose we just made the whole thing up out of thin air to put more charges on Snowden. Rolling Eyes

1 Reply

@revelette2,

You don't think the timing is suspicious? It's better than believing everything your masters tell you.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

I don't know about the timing and I am not even sure the two stories are connected. I just think you are turning into a real conspiracy nut. I mean to actually believe the US just fabricated the whole China hacking story just so they can charge Snowden with more charges is really stretching rational thinking.

1 Reply

@revelette2,

I never said the US fabricated the China hacking story. Never even hinted at such. I just pointed out that just over a week after the major hacking occurs, our government leaks details of spies being moved because of Snowden. I think the hack is just as likely to be the real reason, and the fact that this was leaked, as opposed to being officially announced, lends credence to that notion.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Quote:

Besides other points: how did those anonymous British officials know that China and Russia learned things from the Snowden files as opposed to all the other hacking and spying done by those countries?

We know that the British handed Hong Kong back to China in 1997. Since then a China presence (spies) has been a certainty in Hong Kong. Edward Snowden's unexpected Hong Kong presence rendered a gold mine for China and the Russians. Their fundamental goal/target would have been to access any encryption files Snowden had with him. There are codes and there are codes and the US recognize its own codes.

Look, this is just speculation on my part, but native intelligence tells me there was no way Snowden wasn't a target from the moment he landed in Hong Kong....his picture was shown on huge flat screens all over that country. Perhaps Edward Snowden's naivety did not permit him to realize just how vulnerable to computer hawks/spies he would be.

1 Reply

@korkamann,

All of which shows that America's hardball attitude has been totally counterproductive. Not only do they not have Snowden, but they've ensured the Russians and Chinese have got their hands on the files.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

I still do not see a connection between your government leaking details of spies being moved because of Snowden and China hacking into US federal employee information. Why would the British government leak details of spies being removed because of the Snowden files because a week ago the US announced China has hacking into US federal employee information (or whatever.) I mean I don't see the connection at all. Try to explain it to me, sorry being slow but I don't get it.

1 Reply

@revelette2,

Because they're trying to blame Snowden instead of ineffective computer security.

What paints America in the best light, being betrayed by Snowden or having lax security?

2 Replies

@izzythepush,

I still think you are leaping to rapid unfounded conclusions. Why would the British government care so much about the image of the US computer security that it would lead them to leak information about them having remove spies (was that it?) because of the Snowden files? Not everyone would jump to the same conclusions as you and think the two are connected. So do you think your government fabricated the leak to start with just to make the US look better?

And yes, I am thumbing you down, I think you are so worried about Snowden looking bad and the US not looking like the bad guy that you making unfounded connections and conspiracies rather than just going by what you read in the news and waiting for more information.

3 Replies

@revelette2,

You really don't know how deep into each others pockets our two governments are intelligence wise. The CIA funds GCHQ for quite a few millions. If your system isn't up to the job then neither is ours.

Our respective intelligence agencies look better if they can blame the forced relocation of spies on leaks by Snowden instead of on inadequate security measures.

In the first instance they're victims, in the second they're incompetent. That's not jumping to conclusions, it's stating the flaming obvious.

0 Replies

@revelette2,

revelette2 wrote:

So do you think your government fabricated the leak to start with just to make the US look better?

Our government didn't fabricate a leak, it leaked. And yes both our governments look better if we accept that narrative.

0 Replies

Snowdon is a dummy

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