Snowdon is a dummy

@Olivier5,

The comment I called jaundiced was...

Quote:

Their jobs is on the line, so they would say that whether or not it's true. I don't expect anyone to say the truth if doing so involves professional suicide.

...which was your reply to my comment...

Quote:

I understand that is what you are supposing, Olivier. But I would prefer to defer to the people running the organizations charged with doing the protecting and preventing. There is not unanimity of opinion from them... but the majority of them seem to think some kind of surveillance program is desirable.

If you want to consider your comment more "realistic" than "jaundiced"...that is your prerogative. I consider it jaundiced.

I understand that distrust and disrespect for government is all the vogue these days...but I prefer not to indulge in that kind of thing. If you want to consider me naive...or to be just pretending...you can. Once again, you have that right.

In my opinion, life is good. In fact, life is great.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Human beings tend to take liberties with the truth when their own interest is at stake. That much is obvious to anyone who ever bought a used car.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Human beings tend to take liberties with the truth when their own interest is at stake. That much is obvious to anyone who ever bought a used car.

Without a doubt...human beings tend to take liberties with the truth when their own interest is at stake.

And you are correct...that should be obvious to anyone.

What does that have to do with what we were discussing?

Read what I originally wrote. Nothing in there negates anything you said up above (all of which I agree with, by the way).

But whether the human beings involved are taking liberties with the truth or not...I MUCH, MUCH prefer to use what they are saying as the basis for the decisions I am making on these issue...than to use yours.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

I MUCH, MUCH prefer to use what they are saying as the basis for the decisions I am making on these issue...than to use yours.

Is that the only choice you have? Little me or the NSA? Poor you.

What about reading the report from the panel of experts appointed by your own president? You know, the guy you voted for.

"In our view, the current storage by the government of bulk meta-data
creates potential risks to public trust, personal privacy, and civil liberty. We
recognize that the government might need access to such meta-data, which
should be held instead either by private providers or by a private third
party. This approach would allow the government access to the relevant
information when such access is justified, and thus protect national
security without unnecessarily threatening privacy and liberty. Consistent
with this recommendation, we endorse a broad principle for the future: as
a general rule and without senior policy review, the government should
not be permitted to collect and store mass, undigested, non-public personal
information about US persons for the purpose of enabling future queries
and data-mining for foreign intelligence purposes. "

https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/docs/2013-12-12_rg_final_report.pdf

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

A majority of the people charged with protecting America say they want the powers granted in the original act. A majority of the politicians charged with doing what the people of America want...say they want the people charged with protecting America to have the powers granted in the original act.

I'll go with that.

If you feel that is the wrong choice...go with something different.

I do not see the problem.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

No problem at all. You're entitled to be a sheep.

You know what are the four greatest lies in the universe?

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@Olivier5,

I knew from our last encounter that you were not an especially good loser, Olivier.

But now I see you are not even a good winner.

I agreed with much of what you said...and conceded that you have the right to disagree. But rather than leave it at that...you want to go the insult route...and get yourself all bloodied up again.

You ought to learn your lesson...and stop thinking that being willing to take a severe beating makes you look like you are brave. Actually, it just makes you look like you are foolish.

But keep at it. I'm willing to meet your needs. Wink

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Thanks for the laugh, Frank.

You know what are the four biggest lies in the universe?

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

No problem with the laugh, Olivier. Keep in mind that he who laughs last...laughs best.

I'll credit you where it is due...and here is one of those opportunities. You are an excellent starter of things.

Me...I'm not good at starting things. My specialty is finishing them.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Actually it is much easier today to go along with the thinking that all spying done by government is by it's nature intrusive and in violation of our natural civil liberties. It's much harder to be nuanced with shades of greys and trying to explain to people here without being pounced on and insulted for have a different outlook based on our own thinking and conclusions. If we think differently, surely, we must be blind sheep of the shepherds which in this case would be the big bad government; or even yet, here in this thread, the US government.

I have agreed more than once based on evidence such as Oliver pointed out that mass data storing does not seem to be more good than harm so it may as well be done away with.

3 Replies

@revelette2,

Hey, I still think the same. Targeted signal intell is A-Okay and useful. It's mass collection which is ineffective and dangerous for civil life.

0 Replies

@revelette2,

Excellent comment, Revelette.

That is what I have been trying to say to Olivier…that after assessing what we choose to assess…we come to different conclusions.

Olivier quoted the “panel of experts” saying, among other things, that the procedures endangers personal privacy.

Well…the technology of today endangers personal privacy even more…and it is not going to get any less sophisticated in the future.

I know you do not agree with me on this (neither, apparently, does Olivier), but as far as I can see, personal privacy to any significant degree is a thing of the past…as dead as the dinosaurs.

It simply does not matter to me as much as to some others. I see it as a potentially good thing for humankind.

In any case, so that this does not get into an unnecessary battle between Olivier and me…I will extend my hand in friendship to him.

We disagree on this issue, Olivier. That does not make me a sheep. I extend my hand to you and ask that we leave it at: We agree to disagree on the issue…and no need for either of us to negatively characterize the other on that account.

I apologize for any negative characterizations I have made here.

What say?

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@Frank Apisa,

Your specialty is to try and exhaust your opponents. Just because you're the last guy left in the room doesn't mean you finished anything.

Try to think, as opposed to trying to say Nay nay nay forever...

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Your specialty is to try and exhaust your opponents. Just because you're the last guy left in the room doesn't mean you finished anything.

Try to think, as opposed to trying to say Nay nay nay forever...

I am not saying nay, nay, nay forever.

In any case, I once again extend my hand and ask that we simply agree to disagree...rather than going through a whole bunch of nonsense.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Fine with me...

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The World Says No to Surveillance

By Edward J. Snowden

Quote:

TWO years ago today, three journalists and I worked nervously in a Hong Kong hotel room, waiting to see how the world would react to the revelation that the National Security Agency had been making records of nearly every phone call in the United States. In the days that followed, those journalists and others published documents revealing that democratic governments had been monitoring the private activities of ordinary citizens who had done nothing wrong.

Within days, the United States government responded by bringing charges against me under World War I-era espionage laws. The journalists were advised by lawyers that they risked arrest or subpoena if they returned to the United States. Politicians raced to condemn our efforts as un-American, even treasonous.

Privately, there were moments when I worried that we might have put our privileged lives at risk for nothing — that the public would react with indifference, or practiced cynicism, to the revelations.

Never have I been so grateful to have been so wrong.

more.

2 Replies

@InfraBlue,

I'm delighted he was wrong when he though he was putting his life and freedom at risk for nothing, Blue.

Now I hope he comes back to the United States to get a fair trial...and show that his heroism knows no bounds.

Or...he can just rest in the heaven of privacy in which he now resides.

2 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Now I hope he comes back to the United States to get a fair trial...

Fat chance.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Now I hope he comes back to the United States to get a fair trial

He's got more chance of getting a decent cup of tea.

1 Reply

@InfraBlue,

We agree there, Blue. I also doubt he will come back to the United States to face a fair trial.

0 Replies

Snowdon is a dummy

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