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Snowdon is a dummy

Forums: Politics, Snowden, Asylum, Nsa, Snowdon
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oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Mon 4 May, 2015 08:42 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Quote:
Emerson added that the ongoing cooperation between the two countries' intelligence services was "no secret."

The last sentence had been commented by other media and politicians as ... "ignorance".

Why would they characterize a widely-known truth as "ignorance"?
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 4 May, 2015 08:46 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
Why would they characterize a widely-known truth as "ignorance"?
Because, at least officially, it wasn't known until now that
a) a minister lied purposely to an interrogative committee,
b) our foreign intelligence service could have helped NSA to spy on Germans and German institutions.
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 May, 2015 08:48 am
@oralloy,
I think in Walter previous post he was trying to point out the difference in the way Germans feel about government spying and the way Americans feel about spying. Considering their country went through all that in the past (I am not knowledgeable about history) with Hitler and all they do not want history to repeat itself. Walter can explain much better about the spying which was done by their government during Hitler's time and how it still affects the country of Germany to this day.

A country has a right to run their country as they feel it aught to be run. If the people of Germany do not want a return to those days, then it is right to see that it is not.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 4 May, 2015 08:48 am
@Walter Hinteler,
To a)
De Maizière has denied the allegations today. He said he "follows and followed the rules" and would be happy to provide "extensive information" about what he knows and remembers. He, and the current Chief of the Chancellery, Peter Altmaier, are to appear before the intelligence service supervisory committee on Wednesday.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 4 May, 2015 08:53 am
@revelette2,
We are a country which is still digesting decades of espionage at the hands of the East German Ministry for State Security (Stasi), not only during the Nazi-period. And thus, the issue stirs emotions.

The main points currently being held against de Maizière (and Merkel) is that last month he went on record saying there were "no findings relating to alleged industrial espionage through the NSA or other US services in other states."
But according to various media (and that had been more orless confirmed by now) at the time of that statement, the German government was already aware of "attempts by the NSA to use an existing cooperation to explore German and European companies".

And now people (and the media) are asking: what more was given to the NSA?

Making that information accessible enough to provide a fuller picture is, given its very nature, inherently difficult. But there's no doubt that this scandal has the potential to be damaging to the interior minister's (at least his) political future.
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 May, 2015 09:07 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Oh, it is the industrial spying which is new. I have such a bad habit of missing important information. Anyway, so ya'lls SOS, de Maiziere said there was no findings, now it is discovered there are findings and so the secretary of state has to go before an investigative committee to give an account for those words.

I think I am up to date, more or less?

I can understand the outrage over it since it may be de Maiziere told a bold face lie .

It is possible industrial spying involved terrorist activities and that is why there was cooperation between Germany's intelligence agency and the US intelligence agency. I can see how it could be a relation.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 May, 2015 10:14 am
@revelette2,
You're up to date.

And 'yes', somehow your ambassador in Berlin related all that to possible terrorist activities ... at Airbus, EUROCOPTER, the Palais de l'Élysée, the EU ...
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 4 May, 2015 12:31 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
America's Willing Helper: Intelligence Scandal Puts Merkel in Tight Place
Quote:
Germany's latest spying scandal has created the biggest crisis yet for the country's foreign intelligence agency. The German government appears to have been aware of widespread US spying, possibly including economic espionage, against European targets and yet it did nothing to stop it
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 May, 2015 01:10 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Spying on Hollande's Élysée palace must be the most boring job ever... Not sure there's anything happening in there. I'm sure spying on Obama's White House is much more fun.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Tue 5 May, 2015 11:30 am
@Olivier5,
The Austrian government has placed a complaint because of "intelligence activities to the detriment of the Republic of Austria" today.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Tue 5 May, 2015 11:36 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
VIENNA: Austria has filed a legal complaint over suspicions that Germany's BND intelligence agency and the U.S. National Security Agency might have spied on its authorities and firms, the interior minister said on Tuesday.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel defended the BND on Monday against accusations it illegally helped the United States spy on officials and companies in Europe.

"Austria demands clarification," Interior Minister Johanna Mikl-Leitner told Reuters, following German media reports about such activities. He added that Austria's security authorities were in contact with their German counterparts.

"Today we have filed a legal complaint with the prosecutor's office," she said, "against an unknown entity due to secret intelligence services to Austria's disadvantage."

Revelations by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden that Washington carried out large-scale electronic espionage in Europe have provoked outrage.

The German chancellery has said it had known of the NSA interest in spying on European defence firms since 2008, even though parliament was told in 2014 it had no information about that.

Mikl-Leitner said Austria will try to resolve the situation through its security, diplomatic and judicial bodies.

"There is no concrete evidence yet," she said. "It's not far-fetched to suspect that Austria was also spied on."

(Reporting by Shadia Nasralla; Editing by Tom Heneghan)

- Reuters
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 May, 2015 12:12 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
That ought to do lots of good!

I'm sure because of the complaint the US and Germany will stop immediately.



It is one thing for the people here in A2K to be unrealistic about things like this...but the government of an actual country???
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Tue 5 May, 2015 12:22 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
It is one thing for the people here in A2K to be unrealistic about things like this...but the government of an actual country???[/b]
18 U.S. Code Chapter 37 - ESPIONAGE AND CENSORSHIP
... ... ... ... ...

Criminal Code of the Republic of Austria (StGB)
Quote:
§ 256 StGB Geheimer Nachrichtendienst zum Nachteil Österreichs

Wer zum Nachteil der Republik Österreich einen geheimen Nachrichtendienst einrichtet oder betreibt oder einen solchen Nachrichtendienst wie immer unterstützt, ist mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu drei Jahren zu bestrafen.

(Secret Intelligence Service to the detriment of Austria

Who set up a secret intelligence service to the detriment of the Republic of Austria or maintains such a messaging service or supports itin whatever kind , shall be punished with imprisonment up to three years.)
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 May, 2015 12:33 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
What they should have done was to include a paragraph about prohibiting winter.

Winter can be a drag, Walter. I think they should have included that.

And maybe outlawing avalanches. I know Austria has plenty of trouble from avalanche...so including a prohibition against them would have been wise. Or at least as wise as the rest of that stuff.

Do you get my meaning?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 May, 2015 12:34 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Oh, by the way...Snowden is not a dummy in my opinion.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Tue 5 May, 2015 12:46 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I'd thought until your post(s), Frank, that the USA prohibits espionage as well. I must have misread the US code.
But that's really good for Snowden: he won't be prosecuted!

Btw: until last month, there have been 9 fatalities due to avalanges in the USA. Do you have a law outlawing avalanches? (Austria had 25 so far, among them two from the U.S. Ski Team.)
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Tue 5 May, 2015 01:01 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Seriously, Frank_ do you really mean that secret intelligence services to USA's disadvantage can be done without legal consequences?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 May, 2015 01:12 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
One...I am not trying to bust your balls, Walter. I like you...and I like your spirit.

Two...what I mean...what I am talking about is:

There will be more spying tomorrow than today...and more the day after that. It will keep going that way.

The spying will be more sophisticated tomorrow than today...and more sophisticated the day after that. It will continue in that way .

The spying will be more intrusive on personal privacy tomorrow than today...and more intrusive still on the day after that. That will also continue in that way.

Finally...I see all this as being for the good of humanity...not as a negative as so many of you do. I think this is a part of the growing factor for homo sapiens...and hope it will be the factor that allows us to continue our evolution.

I understand that intelligent, reasonable, well-intentioned people may disagree with me completely on this...but this is what I think and mean.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 May, 2015 02:01 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
Finally...I see all this as being for the good of humanity...not as a negative as so many of you do. I think this is a part of the growing factor for homo sapiens...and hope it will be the factor that allows us to continue our evolution.
At least, here I can partly agree: what Snowden did was good for humanity.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 May, 2015 02:31 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
Finally...I see all this as being for the good of humanity...not as a negative as so many of you do. I think this is a part of the growing factor for homo sapiens...and hope it will be the factor that allows us to continue our evolution.
At least, here I can partly agree: what Snowden did was good for humanity.


We can agree completely.

What Snowden did was good for humanity.

That is one of the reasons I hope he gets a fair trial to clear his name.

He can try to use that defense.

Might work...might not.

That is the way fair trials work.
 

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