41
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 1 May, 2015 12:44 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Now it has been said that the BND spied for NSA on Austria as well- the Federal Prosecution Office is investigating: treason, poltical and industrial espionage.

According to the latest information, the BND was "schooled" by the GCHQ to get phone and internet data (for the British) from the telekom's data central in Frankfurt: in return, the British service wanted to give them access to their data. The third partner in the project, called "Monkeyshoulder, should have been NSA. It was stopped after a year by the new president of the BND.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  3  
Reply Fri 1 May, 2015 04:39 pm
Patriot Act Faces Revisions Backed by Both Parties

Quote:
...

On Thursday, a bill that would overhaul the Patriot Act and curtail the so-called metadata surveillance exposed by Edward J. Snowden was overwhelmingly passed by the House Judiciary Committee and was heading to almost certain passage in that chamber this month.

An identical bill in the Senate — introduced with the support of five Republicans — is gaining support over the objection of Senator Mitch McConnell, Republican of Kentucky, who is facing the prospect of his first policy defeat since ascending this year to majority leader.

...

Under the bipartisan bills in the House and Senate, the Patriot Act would be changed to prohibit bulk collection, and sweeps that had operated under the guise of so-called National Security Letters issued by the F.B.I. would end. The data would instead be stored by the phone companies themselves, and could be accessed by intelligence agencies only after approval of the secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act court.

The legislation would also create a panel of experts to advise the FISA court on privacy, civil liberties, and technology matters, while requiring the declassification of all significant FISA court opinions.


Mitch McConnell, on the other hand introduced a bill that would extend a surveillance authority under the Patirot Act.
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Sat 2 May, 2015 07:31 am
@InfraBlue,
I wish these kinds of issues got more attention. McConnell been known to bend at times when it looks like there is no way out.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 May, 2015 07:43 am
As most here know...I am not nearly as bothered by the spying (domestic and otherwise) as most of you are.

The spying is going to continue.

Listen again (this time I am yelling): THE SPYING IS GOING TO CONTINUE.

It doesn't matter what the congress eventually passes or the president signs (much of which will be little more than lipstick and rouge)...the spying is going to continue.

Lucky for all of us that it will.

The world will be a much better place with fewer secrets...and on balance, nothing rids the world of secrets better than spying.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Sat 2 May, 2015 08:21 am
@Frank Apisa,
The situation in Germany is called (now even smaller coalition party, the SPD) is being "ein Stück aus dem Tollhaus" (This is bedlam) and especially about the US-espionage in Germany ""Ungeheuerlich, unerträglich, völlig inakzeptabel" (Outrageous, intolerable, unacceptable) Even conservative papers (especially the mass tabloid 'Bild', normally Merkel's poodle) are now heavily critic with Merkel's behaviour and the role of de Mazière.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 May, 2015 09:03 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Call it whatever you want, Walter, but...

...THE SPYING WILL CONTINUE UNTIL COUNTRIES AND HUMANS CEASE TO EXIST.

If you are not willing to deal with that...you are kidding yourself.


AS LONG AS THERE ARE HUMANS AND COUNTRIES...SPYING WILL CONTINUE TO EXIST.

Nothing will stop it...and demanding laws against it is simply demanding that your country lie to you.

(I will acknowledge that there is some yelling going on in this post.)

Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sat 2 May, 2015 09:14 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
...THE SPYING WILL CONTINUE UNTIL COUNTRIES AND HUMANS CEASE TO EXIST.
Your "shouting" really is annoying, Frank.
If you feel insulted by the facts (sic!) I posted above, you certainly could response more civilised, I think.

The louder you shout, the wronger you are.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 May, 2015 09:27 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Your naivete' is annoying to me also, Walter.

The more naive you are...chances are the more wrong you are!
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Sat 2 May, 2015 09:46 am
@Frank Apisa,
You seem to miss the point, of course spying is going to continue. However, too much information has come out which says the data sweeps so to speak are not effective for the purpose of catching terrorist. I guess from what I understand, it is like trying to shift through piles of hay looking for needles.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 May, 2015 10:08 am
@revelette2,
Don't count on the information that has come out, Revelette.

If the sweeps are picking up stuff...and stopping stuff...

...there is no way in Hell that you are going to be told that is so.

They will lie about that right down the line.

I do not understand why people who doubt the word of politicians and professional spies from the spy organization from top to bottom...

...are willing to accept something like this...especially since no matter if the spying is working or not working...you are going to get the same information.

The spying is not only going to continue...but if it is effective, you are going to be told it is completely ineffective...or at times that it is effective. The idea is to spy...not to tell the public the truth.

Confuse 'em as much as possible is the best technique.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sat 2 May, 2015 11:04 am
@Frank Apisa,
Thank you.
You do know that I was just reporting about the news.

You are really are the very first person I've ever put on ignore here
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sat 2 May, 2015 11:10 am
@revelette2,
What I've posted (as a kind of summary of the news of the last couple of days) is about the German foreign intelligence service, that they were doing the job for NSA, that they acted illegally (against the law plus obviously not even reporting to the minister and Chancellery), that the government (Chancellor and minister) either lied or doesn't know what's going on unlawfully in the department, that the government, especially the Chancellery, still doesn't act, that ... It the biggest crisis this government has been in. (Even the conservative party [in the parliament] is now threatening the Chancellery.]
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 May, 2015 11:30 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Ahhh...you don't wanna ignore me, Walter.

You're just upset because of some of the things I'm pointing out.

No need for animosity between us.

We both want a better world...we just disagree about some of the things that will be in that world.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Sat 2 May, 2015 11:40 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Ok, I was more or less speaking of the information contained in infrablue's post concerning the Patriot Act and changes in it verses passing it as it is. The deadline for it is on June 1st I am pretty sure. Would have to check to make sure but I know it is coming up soon.

I guess we all mainly concentrate on own countries. I have to confess I get confused with your post with all the unfamiliar names and terms and legal speak.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sat 2 May, 2015 10:53 pm
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:
I have to confess I get confused with your post with all the unfamiliar names and terms and legal speak.


Perhaps this report in English will give some help (especially with the links in it)
BND-NSA collaboration deeper than thought

Quote:
US ambassador to Germany John Emerson on Saturday defended the NSA, saying it was a matter of cultural difference.
"Americans only see it as a violation of privacy when someone reads their letters and emails or listens in on their phone calls," Emerson told German newspaper Kölner Stadt-Anzeiger. For Germans, though, the violations also had a historical significance.
Emerson added that the ongoing cooperation between the two countries' intelligence services was "no secret."
The last sentence had been commented by other media and politicians as ... "ignorance".
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sat 2 May, 2015 11:11 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Some more background information at Spiegel-online's English site: Spying Close to Home: German Intelligence Under Fire for NSA Cooperation
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 May, 2015 02:39 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:


Quote:
US ambassador to Germany John Emerson on Saturday defended the NSA, saying it was a matter of cultural difference.
"Americans only see it as a violation of privacy when someone reads their letters and emails or listens in on their phone calls," Emerson told German newspaper Kölner Stadt-Anzeiger. For Germans, though, the violations also had a historical significance.
Emerson added that the ongoing cooperation between the two countries' intelligence services was "no secret."
The last sentence had been commented by other media and politicians as ... "ignorance".


Too bad they do not realize it is "truth"...not "ignorance."

0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sun 3 May, 2015 10:59 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
SPD, opposition ramp up pressure on Merkel over BND allegations
Quote:
Ralf Stegner, the deputy chairman of the Social Democrats (SPD), with which Chancellor Merkel's Christian Democrats govern in a grand coalition, used a newspaper interview to demand that her office tell all it knows about the spying allegations.
"For the chancellor, the game of keeping the latest findings at a distance and saying they are nothing to do with her is up," Stegner said in Monday's edition of the Munich-based national daily Süddeutsche Zeitung. The chancellor he said, must "enlighten [us] now."

This, he said, meant that "the current head of the Chancellery and both of his predecessors" must appear before the Bundestag's special committee set up to shed light on the surveillance activities of the United States' National Security Agency (NSA) . Stegner was referring to the current Chancellery boss, Peter Altmaier, as well as Ronald Pofalla and Thomas de Maiziere, who is now the interior minister. All three are members of Merkel's Christian Democrats.

De Maiziere, who was head of the Chancellery between 2005 and 2009 is scheduled to appear before the Bundestag's standing intelligence committee on Wednesday.
[...]
The latest allegations were first reported in Saturday's edition of the weekly news magazine Der Spiegel. It said the BND intelligence agency had "deleted 12,000" requests from the NSA targeting "a certain number of senior officials from the French foreign service", as well as members of "EU institutions and several European countries."
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 4 May, 2015 08:39 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
You are really are the very first person I've ever put on ignore here

I don't think you realize how Germany is coming across to Americans, and how German attitudes are causing a bit of exasperation on our part.

In the view of Americans, spying is something that all countries do against each other, and when one ally is caught spying on another there may be some need for official condemnation, but nothing too harsh since we all know that we are all spying on each other.

In the view of Americans, when one ally gets caught spying on another, the primary reaction should be sympathy for their embarrassment at getting caught and sympathy for their difficulties in having their spying disrupted.

Further, in the wake of 9/11, Americans feel that an increase in spying well beyond the usual is warranted and reasonable, and feel that any ally should understand this.

Therefore the intolerance that Germany is showing towards America's spying comes across as naive and unrealistic, and it is quite at odds from the sympathy and understanding that we were (and are) expecting.

Frank was likely exasperated at this excessive and out of place intolerance, leading to his yelling.

My above explanation is also the reason why I've previously accused Germany of behaving more like an enemy than like a friend. All this unwarranted intolerance towards our spying is really quite exasperating.
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 May, 2015 08:40 am
I seem to remember you posting quite some time ago about cooperation between the German intelligence agency and the US intelligence agency. I am trying to figure out what the new news is. Is it that before it wasn't known Merkel knew about it as well?
0 Replies
 
 

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