Snowdon is a dummy

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

My point, Olivier, is that any damage that occurs is caused by getting caught spying...(particularly if publicly disclosed)...not by the spying itself.

I know. My point is that it makes no difference since mass spying was bound to be disclosed at some point.

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@Moment-in-Time,

Quote:

What occurred in 2000 was not acted out in secrecy.

Which is why we know about it. But as Frank would put it, it matters not when the cheaters aren't caught.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Moment-in-Time wrote:
Then the country being spied on has to perform for its citizens, let out a cry, such as Chancellor Angela Merkel did....

Meanwhile, I'm quite certain that most Americans will never understand what effects our (Nazi and GDR) history had on us, our society, constitution and laws.

I think most Americans do understand...and I am not sure why you so often suggest that we don't.

But what is your point?

What MiT said is right on the button.

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
What occurred in 2000 was not acted out in secrecy.

Which is why we know about it. But as Frank would put it, it matters not when the cheaters aren't caught.

That is NOT what I said at all.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

That is NOT what I said at all.

Now you understand my frustration with Oliver5. Somehow or another what one is trying to say becomes distorted in such a manner as to signal you were wrong and Oliver5 is right.

1 Reply

@Moment-in-Time,

Moment-in-Time wrote:

Quote:

That is NOT what I said at all.

Now you understand my frustration with Oliver5. Somehow or another what one is trying to say becomes distorted in such a manner as to signal you were wrong and Oliver5 is right.

Just gotta correct him every time. Wink

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

That is NOT what I said at all.

LOL... Don't shy away from your stance now. For you, spying does no harm as long as the spies aren't caught... The same argument can be used to justify manipulating an election. It only leads to a big scandal if you get caught...

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@Olivier5,

Frank already said himself that his own country hasn't done anything "illegal", which hereby implores in itself that the onus is now on Frank.

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
That is NOT what I said at all.

LOL... Don't shy away from your stance now. For you, spying does no harm as long as the spies aren't caught... The same argument can be used to justify manipulating an election. It only leads to a big scandal if you get caught...

THAT IS NOT WHAT I SAID.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

THAT IS WHAT YOU IMPLIED.

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Quote:

https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2014/09/fake_cell_phone.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Fake Cell Phone Towers Across the US
Earlier this month, there were a bunch of stories about fake cell phone towers discovered around the US These seems to be IMSI catchers, like Harris Corporation's Stingray, and are used to capture location information and potentially phone calls, text messages, and smart-phone Internet traffic. A couple of days ago, the Washington Post ran a story about fake cell phone towers in politically interesting places around Washington DC. In both cases, researchers used security software that's part of CryptoPhone from the German company GSMK. And in both cases, we don't know who is running these fake cell phone towers. Is it the US government? A foreign government? Multiple foreign governments? Criminals?

This is the problem with building an infrastructure of surveillance: you can't regulate who gets to use it. The FBI has been protecting Stingray like it's an enormous secret, but it's not a secret anymore. We are all vulnerable to everyone because the NSA wanted us to be vulnerable to them.

We have one infrastructure. We can't choose a world where the US gets to spy and the Chinese don't. We get to choose a world where everyone can spy, or a world where no one can spy. We can be secure from everyone, or vulnerable to anyone. And I'm tired of us choosing surveillance over security.

Tags: cell phones

1 Reply

@RABEL222,

Quote:

Whats the difference between cutting someones head off and shooting them down in a civilian airliner except the Russians are more efficient at killing people. Or are we blaming the U S of A for the airliner downing because the U S of A is automatically responsible for any death in the world.

In a peculiar way, Rabel, you are correct, in that killing is killing. However, it takes a distinctly unusual person to calmly decapitate another's head. "Cutting" off someone's head is savagery intensified. The decapitation of a human head from a live victim is so disturbing to the ordinary psyche, that one is usually left numb with fear and utter loathing for the person doing the deed. Shooting is quicker, like a shot directly to the middle of the forehead or directly into the heart is more humane.

The strangest thing tho is Saudia Arabia still participates in this brutality ... "In 2012 and 2013, Saudi Arabia cut the heads off of 79 people for various “crimes throughout the nation."

....and they still cut off hands for staling in that part of the world.

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@Moment-in-Time,

Quote:

Rabel, you are correct, in that killing is killing.

Nonsense no one likely had shot down a civilian airliner knowing it was a civilian airliner instead of a military aircraft.

However the prisoners who have their heads cut off was one helpless prisoners and civilians and there was no question about those facts.

An accidental killings of civilians is morally not the same as the knowingly executions of civilian prisoners and it does not matter how they had killed those prisoners as far as how morally wrong it happen to be.

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@Moment-in-Time,

The guillotine was supposed to be painless because it happened so fast. I would think if that were true than decapitation, if done properly would also be painless but a bullet to the heart might not kill instantly and would be painful for a short time. Im not saying either is the thing to do but as you said killing is killing and to claim that one is more humane than the other is just wrong.

1 Reply

@RABEL222,

@Moment-in-Time,

Quote:

Rabel222 wrote:

The guillotine was supposed to be painless because it happened so fast. I would think if that were true than decapitation, if done properly would also be painless but a bullet to the heart might not kill instantly and would be painful for a short time. Im not saying either is the thing to do but as you said killing is killing and to claim that one is more humane than the other is just wrong.

Good morning, Rabel. I am afraid my post to you was somewhat obscure and I beg your pardon for the confusion.

The ISIS victims decapitations were not done by guillotine as far as the public is aware. The supposed killer had in his hand a knife which we have seen repeatedly. If he used this knife to AX his victims heads then this is pure butchery. A guillotine would have been more merciful, i.e., quicker, a clean swift cut....that would be humane instead of the slaughter with a hand knife.

A bullet if aimed directly at the heart will kill one instantly, as will a bullet in the middle of the forehead. These acts of doing away with a victim is more merciful as they will not suffer protracted pain which a knife would cause.

Killing, generally, should never be considered humane UNLESS one is going to administer Euthanasia to person in constant pain from cancer, etc. We realize the patient is in misery and drugs to ease the pain doesn't always work in the end.....This is referred to as Mercy Killing. We, as pet owners, would have our pets put down if they were afflicted with a fatal disease and were in constant pain. When I use the word "humane" with killing, I mean the victim should not suffer a protracted painful killing....if he has to be killed let it be quick with as little prolonged pain as humanly possible.

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@Olivier5,

It is Frank's position that spying is not wrong. The problem comes when it becomes a big story and if it is other countries and their citizens get upset, then their leaders get upset so they have make a big stink about it to please their citizens. In other words, spying itself is not a problem, the problem only comes about when it becomes a big story causing upset.

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@revelette2,

I don't think that your opinion is true for Germany.

For most here, spying is no problem. Especially, what is done by the domestic service(s) (Office(s) for the Protection of the Constitution) against extremists is ... wanted by most.

What people upset here, is the illegal (and according to our laws criminal) spying. And since, for whatever reasons, the immense of some spying on us by foreign services wasn't know even to the relevant parliamentary 'supervisors', that made the 'bad mood' here.
So, not because it became a big story, it caused upset but because it is a big story it came in the headlines ... and only then politicians got upset.

1 Reply

@revelette2,

revelette2 wrote:

It is Frank's position that spying is not wrong. The problem comes when it becomes a big story and if it is other countries and their citizens get upset, then their leaders get upset so they have make a big stink about it to please their citizens. In other words, spying itself is not a problem, the problem only comes about when it becomes a big story causing upset.

Similarly, raping a woman in her sleep is not wrong. She only gets upset if you wake her up.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

Fake Cell Phone Towers Across the US

Vandalize one of them and see we who comes up to repair it.

Maybe the aliens put them up... ;-)

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

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Vandalize one of them and see we who comes up to repair it.

For the most part they do not look like cell phone towers except to any phones in the area, but devices that can be carry around in briefcases size containers.

The police love them as you can drive around an area looking for a known cell phone without the need to deal with either the courts or the the cell phone companies.

For details see the below link

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stingray_phone_tracker

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