Snowdon is a dummy

@izzythepush,

Quote:

The word Islamist is a recognised term for violent Moslem extremists

In practice, each and every Islamist is not necessarily violent himself, but believes that in predominantly Muslim countries, politics should be infused by Islam and follow the precepts of Islam, etc. That generally includes the use of violent means such as jihad.

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@revelette2,

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What makes you think Obama is spying on Merkel now? I know they did at one time. But they have stopped it.

What makes you think they have stopped it? Just because they said so?

In any case, Merkel is just one example of how the US is shooting in its own diplomatic foot. It's not good international politics to spy on your allies as aggressively as what you guys do. It's insulting.

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@revelette2,

Revelette, Olivier is correct when he says you do not know that the US is no longer spying on Merkel.

Frankly, the best you can do is to make a blind guess that we no longer are...or that we are continuing despite assurances that we have stopped.

You ought simply to acknowledge that.

It is sort of like there is no way Olivier can know that mass data gathering is not effective...or that it will never be effective any time in the future.

The best he can do is to make a blind guess about it...even if he insists on calling the blind guess an "informed opinion."

I hope at some point Olivier will acknowledge that.

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@RABEL222,

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The fact that they shot down civilian airliners

You mean like a US warship Vincennes did off the coast of Iran to a civilian airliner killing 290 innocent men, women and children?

**** happen in conflict zones.

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@Olivier5,

Quote:

What makes you think they have stopped it? Just because they said so?

Yes, that is what makes me think so unless it is proven otherwise.

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@Olivier5,

What you said make no sense to me. A Muslim is a follower of Islam, a Muslim extremist is a Muslim who has taken the Islamic religion and perverted it just as Christian extremist do. If a Christian extremist blows up an abortion clinic, they do not say, a "A Christian blew up an abortion clinic..." If they Christians would naturally get insulted.

Perhaps the more modern term is Islamic, but I always thought Islam is a religion and Muslims are the followers of Islam.

Isis should be called the 'Un-Islamic State': British Muslims call on David Cameron to stop spread of extremist propaganda

Quote:

Calling the terror group that today claimed to have killed another aid worker the Islamic State legitimises it, and politicians should stop using its preferred name to help halt the radicalisation of British Muslims, leading groups have said.

A group of prominent Muslims has written to David Cameron to ask that he uses a different name for the group, and to lead a national debate on what it should be called.

“We propose that 'Un-Islamic State' (UIS) could be an accurate and fair alternative name to describe this group and its agenda - and we will begin to call it that," the letter says.

Signatories to the letter include Sughra Ahmed, the president of the Islamic Society of Britain. Members of New Horizons in British Islam, the Association of British Muslims and the Association of Muslim Lawyers also signed the letter.

Using the group’s preferred name could help it radicalise yet more Britons, the signatories wrote.

We need to work together and make sure that these fanatics don't get the propaganda that they feed off,” the letter says.

“This isn't going to fix the problem of some young people in our community being radicalised by extremists. There's more we need to do, together, to tackle that.

“But confronting this falsehood, that it's somehow 'Islamic' to go off to Iraq or Syria and murder people, is a step in the right direction.”

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@revelette2,

What do you call a christian extremist?

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@revelette2,

This discussion about semantics is not terribly useful. I just wanted to explain what I call 'Islamists'. You can call them as you like.

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@cicerone imposter,

Christian extremist.

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@Olivier5,

Its important to moderate Muslims to distinguish between extremist and moderate Muslims. It is also important when trying to find common ground and diplomacy.

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@revelette2,

revelette2 wrote:

Christian extremist.

Actually, I was going to suggest, "Your Holiness"...although for some reason, that doesn't seem to be the case for the last year.

I hope it is a trend.

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@revelette2,

revelette2 wrote:

Its important to moderate Muslims to distinguish between extremist and moderate Muslims. It is also important when trying to find common ground and diplomacy.

It is indeed important not to lump all Muslims in the terrorist bag. But 'IslamIST' is different from 'IslamIC'. I.e. It's not a synonym of 'Muslim'. The 'ism' (Islamism) or 'ist' ending denotes a political ideology, as in socialIST or feminIST. It may be a European terminology.

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@Olivier5,

Quote:

It may be a European terminology.

It could be. However, moderate Muslims also have an ideology of Islam and some are political as well. Take the religious leaders, all of them have an ideology of Islam and they are political, yet they are not necessarily the same as the extremist or militants as the ISIS or AQ.

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@revelette2,

revelette2 wrote:

Quote:
It may be a European terminology.

It could be. However, moderate Muslims also have an ideology of Islam and some are political as well. Take the religious leaders, all of them have an ideology of Islam and they are political, yet they are not necessarily the same as the extremist or militants as the ISIS or AQ.

That almost certainly was not put in his post for that reason, Revelette.

He is trying to strengthen the establishment of the bona fides of his supposed "Frenchmanship."

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@Olivier5,

Because I read about both sides and than make up my mind rather than spout the conservative garbage given out on public media. One has to do a lot of reading to find the nuggets of truth in the media. I make up my own mind than express my opinion without demanding that the people who arnt as intelligent as I am believe my opinions. By the way if it wasent for my computer in the area I live in I wouldent get anything "but" conservative "facts".

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@Olivier5,

Quote:

Moment-in-Time (Post 5769589)
Quote:
I have met many Muslims of the Islamist faith

Quote:

Oliver5 wrote:
I mean 'Islamist' in the political sense: people who adhere to the political ideology called Islamism, ie who believe in jihad, caliphates and sh!t... Do you know many jihadists and ex-jihadists, Marla?

Ah ha! I misunderstood the the way it was used. I've just checked my dictionary for a better definition and you're correct: "Islamic Fundamentalists are Muslims who believe that The Qur'an should be used as a guide to take over the world in the name of Islam." Wow, who would have thought. I was using the word "Islam" and "Islamic" as one and the same. The adjective: Islamist means something totally different.

No, I cannot say I'm consciously aware of any Islamist Fundamentalists; who knows who is living in my neighborhood or even on campus because as a general rule they do not announce their intentions or that they are the Mujāhid, or Jihadist. I apologize, Olivier5, for misunderstanding your meaning. I'm acquainted with Arab-Americans whose faith is Islam, and they are decent US citizens, along with Muslim students from Asia, who usually bend over backwards to be accepted.

Quote:

Oliver5 wrote:
As for data gathering, a basic rule of thumb is: don't collect data just because you can.

Goodness, who participates in data gathering just for the heck of it?! Data gathering is time consuming and dull as hell! I took the course in "Data Analysis and Decision Making" because at the time I was interested in getting an M.B.A. degree.

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@izzythepush,

Whats the difference between cutting someones head off and shooting them down in a civilian airliner except the Russians are more efficient at killing people. Or are we blaming the U S of A for the airliner downing because the U S of A is automatically responsible for any death in the world.

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@revelette2,

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Yes, that is what makes me think so unless it is proven otherwise.

Now given that they had in fact lied not only to the public but to congress a numbers of times over related matters, why are you so willing to give them the benefit of the doubt?

Seems to me that they surely do not, due to their own actions, deserve having their words taken at face value.

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@izzythepush,

Dont hold your breath until the U S gun nuts have a serious conversation about gun ownership. They wont even agree that someone who has mental problems should be denied their 2nd amendment rights no matter how many thousands have to die for that so called right.

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@BillRM,

Thanks Bill, that was in my mind when I posted this but it dident have anything to do with this discussion.

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