41
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  4  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2014 07:57 am
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:

Quote:
I agree that that Greenwald is biased. But I don't know of an unbiased source who stores Snowden's data
.

The Washington Post and the New York Times since those news sources are not so heavily invested with Greenwald.

On the survey, I don't doubt it. What I do think is that they may not privy to all the information in which US intelligence would be privy too so they may not be able make a complete survey. In other words, pretty well all they would naturally be able to do is get all the information that is out there already, not information which may be classified and/or kept secret in the US intelligence agencies.


Right.

And we all should realize that one of the reasons why Democrats and Republicans each have their own pollsters and survey takers...is because a pollster or survey taker can skew a result with very, very little difficulty.

"Tell me what you want the result to show...then I will frame my survey or poll questions."

I honestly have no idea if Flashpoint has an interest in painting the picture they supposedly painted...but if they were commissioned by Greenwald or The Intercept to make this survey...I would hold it very suspect.

I do not have the capability to determine who commissioned it...nor if any of the principals of Flashpoint have a dog in this fight.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2014 08:05 am
The reason I am posting the following here is that it shows how tracking online is useful in tracking terrorist as well as using other tools such as inside informants. In other words, it is one tool among many which is utilized. Also posting it here to remind people what it is all about.

Quote:
A man who owns an upstate New York food store funded ISIS, tried to send jihadists to Syria to fight with the terrorist group and plotted to do some killing himself -- by gunning down U.S. troops who had served in Iraq -- federal authorities alleged Tuesday.

Mufid A. Elfgeeh, 30, was arrested on May 31, though federal officials didn't outline the case against him until Tuesday. According to an indictment, he faces three counts of trying "to provide material support to a foreign terrorist organization" (namely, ISIS), one count of attempting to kill officers and employees of the United States, two counts of having an unregistered firearm silencer and one for possessing guns or silencers "in furtherance of a crime of violence."

The public defender representing Elfgeeh, Mark Hosken, said Tuesday that he had seen the indictment and will enter a plea of not guilty when his client appears in court on Thursday morning.

The federal investigation into Elfgeeh began in early 2013 and a world away from the Middle East, where ISIS (also known as ISIL and the Islamic State) has waged a brutal campaign in recent years. Citing the terror group's threat to the region and gruesome tactics -- such as the recent beheadings of two American journalists -- the U.S. government has struck ISIS targets from the air in Iraq and threatened to go after it in Syria as well.

A look at Twitter suggests that Elfgeeh didn't stand with his adopted country in this fight, according to an affidavit in support of a search warrant in his case.

He allegedly wrote in one tweet: "Al Qaeda said it loud and clear: we are fighting the American invasion and their hegemony over the earth and the people." In another message, Elfgeeh purportedly stated ISIS "will one day rule the world with the will of Allah."

The affidavit alleges that he urged people to donate a third of their salary or, at least, "#Five_thousand_dollars_from_every_household" (as stated in one tweet) -- stressing the importance of supporting groups like ISIS financially.

But the Yemeni-born owner and operator of Halal Mojo and Food Mart, dubbed Mojoe's by some, in Rochester may have wanted to be more than just a financial supporter. Court documents state that -- if he couldn't sell his store -- Elfgeeh wanted to export "those who are fed up (and want) to go to war and be jihadists."

The FBI informants were among those Elfgeeh actively recruited to join ISIS as jihadists, the affidavit states. He helped them by doing things like paying one of their passport costs, coordinating travel arrangements and setting them up with contacts in the terror group under the guise of going "to the university," which was code for joining ISIS.

Court documents, citing Western Union records, allege that Elfgeeh also sent $600 to a Yemeni man that he believed wanted to join the terrorist group.

He may have had plans of his own in the United States. The affidavit points to conversations with the two FBI informants in which Elfgeeh talked about getting his hands on guns and ammunition to inflict violence stateside. According to the affidavit, Elfgeeh once said he might kill "five or ten already, 15, something like that ... then we" will post video or another message online to explain why he did it

"We want ... to start shooting those who were in the Army who went to Iraq," he said in April, according to the document.

Authorities say they arrested Elfgeeh after he paid for and received two handguns, silencers and ammunition from one of the informants.

Elfgeeh is now in federal custody. If convicted, he could be there for far longer: The firearms possession charges alone have maximum 30 year sentences, the attempted murder charge maximum sentence is 20 years, and a count for providing material support to a terrorist group is up to 15 years.

Attorney General Eric Holder said the case shows federal authorities use of "all the investigative tools at our disposal" -- from searches of social media platforms to FBI informants -- "to break up these plots before individuals can put their plans into action."

"We will remain aggressive in identifying and disrupting those who seek to provide support to ISIL and other terrorist groups that are bent on inflicting harm upon Americans," Holder said. "... We are focused on breaking up these activities on the front end, before supporters of ISIL can make good on plans to travel to the region or recruit sympathizers to this cause."

Fixer recounts how ISIS abducted him and Steven Sotloff


source
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2014 08:14 am
@revelette2,
Following tweeter is very different from spying on people's private life, and does not require nearly as much resources... :-)
revelette2
 
  3  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2014 08:39 am
@Olivier5,
Do you think someone in intelligence just sits down and reads twitter all day in an effort to catch a few alarming words? Talk about time consuming. Its all part of the same program.



Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2014 08:43 am
@revelette2,
Still, your article did NOT provide an example of how mass spying is useful, contrary to what you stated. It showed that social media monitoring can be useful.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2014 09:20 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
I came away with much fewer than 10 pages...but in any case, there was nothing there to indicate the reliability of their conclusions.
They concuded it from the published data etc. And showed that with their graphs.

Of course, any survey can be said to be unreliable, especially, if one doesn't agree with the result.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2014 09:24 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
Lastly, I am not a liar Walter...as Olivier has twice asserted here today. [/b]
Okay.
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2014 09:32 am
@Olivier5,
If people say stuff like that on the internet where they know anyone can read it, if as you say, the terrorist know they are monitored on phones, emails etc.. then it stands to reason they will say similar stuff on phones. They will just try to outsmart those who are spying by using different code words such as the one illustrated above, "go to university" for "go to jihadist."
Olivier5
 
  0  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2014 09:56 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Don't believe him!... :-)
BillRM
 
  3  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2014 10:54 am
@revelette2,
Quote:
They will just try to outsmart those who are spying by using different code words such as the one illustrated above, "go to university" for "go to jihadist."


You got to be kidding me!!!!!!

Suggest you get your hands on a few books dealing with spy craft/trade craft written by experts.

If the terrorists are as clueless as you happen to be there would be not be a worry in the world.

revelette2
 
  3  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2014 10:58 am
@BillRM,
Well, being as how I am clueless, why don't you clue me in to what in the world was wrong with what I said? It so happens to be a fact the fellow they charged did use a code expression, "go to university" as a code for joining ISIS.


Quote:
But the Yemeni-born owner and operator of Halal Mojo and Food Mart, dubbed Mojoe's by some, in Rochester may have wanted to be more than just a financial supporter. Court documents state that -- if he couldn't sell his store -- Elfgeeh wanted to export "those who are fed up (and want) to go to war and be jihadists."

The FBI informants were among those Elfgeeh actively recruited to join ISIS as jihadists, the affidavit states. He helped them by doing things like paying one of their passport costs, coordinating travel arrangements and setting them up with contacts in the terror group under the guise of going "to the university," which was code for joining ISIS.
Olivier5
 
  0  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2014 11:11 am
@revelette2,
This Mojo guy was not a 'professional' terrorist. He did not bomb or kill or terrorize anyone. He's just a cook who was lured by FBI into buying guns illegally, and expressed wishes to fund / recruit for ISIS to FBI agents posing as volunteers. Which is why his level of sophistication in hiding his tracks is zero; he tweeted about his plans for heaven's sake.
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2014 11:43 am
@Olivier5,
Very weak, Oliver. He plotted to kill police officers who served in Iraq, he recruited (might have been successful with others) two informants (not FBI agents) and planned to send them to terrorist groups and paid for their passports. He was just caught, there is no such thing as "professional terrorist." They're all just terrorist, some organized, but some are individuals.
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2014 11:49 am
@revelette2,
As Olivier had already stated your example was also clueless and who had no real ability to do harm and who only used was to made the FBI look good in arresting him.

One wonder how must resources are going toward setting up otherwise harmless men and women by offering them phony explosives and other supports and then arresting them once they push the button and nothing happen.

Or even giving one idiot a few costly remote control planes to back his dream of using them as terrorists weapons.

No we are talking about real terrorists not what to be dreamers who end up with the FBI agents as their supporters.
BillRM
 
  3  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2014 11:55 am
@revelette2,
Quote:
He was just caught, there is no such thing as "professional terrorist." They're all just terrorist, some organized, but some are individuals.


You can indeed have "professional" terrorists cells (see the 911 attackers) or lone wolfs and neither will openly do recruiting so they end up with FBI agents running them.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  0  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2014 11:56 am
@revelette2,
Oh he paid for two passports... What a terrifying man.

The NY police has been doing this for years. They pick some 'radical Muslim' or another, and send agents (or informants indeed but that makes no essential difference) to him with proposals of various terrorist options. If the guy takes the bait, they arrest him. This is one of those cases, only done by the FBI this time. At no point did this 'plot' present any danger to the US.

This guy may be an aspiring terrorist but he is not a terrorist. Not yet anyway.
BillRM
 
  3  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2014 12:13 pm
@Olivier5,
Hell in the 1960s law enforcement at all levels would send in agents provocateurs into anti-war groups and try to lead them into illegal acts and provide the means such as fake explosives.

It got so bad that the courts begin to throw out such cases.

Nothing ever change it would seems.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  3  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2014 12:19 pm
@Olivier5,
He also set them up with terrorist contacts, but whatever, you two are determined to see things a certain way filled with conspiracies around ever corner, for today, I am taking a break.
BillRM
 
  4  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2014 12:23 pm
@revelette2,
Quote:
He also set them up with terrorist contacts,


More likely other government agents as if they was valid terrorist contacts the very last thing they would do is arrested him instead of following up those contacts.
Olivier5
 
  0  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2014 12:29 pm
@revelette2,
What conspiracies? These techniques are well documented. The NYPD did a review of them a few years back.
 

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