42
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sun 14 Sep, 2014 02:37 am
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:

But he refuses to acknowledge that he is wrong and never will because he believes that as long as he continues to argue he may score some points and win his war. He is delusional.


We will see how this thing goes, Rabel...especially on this silly diversion that is going nowhere.

I'm here for the long run...and by now, I think he realizes that.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sun 14 Sep, 2014 05:01 am
Spiegel published it first (today in the digital edition of tomorrow's print magazine), it's now (most of it) on Intercept as well:
MAP OF THE STARS - The NSA and GCHQ Campaign Against German Satellite Companies

Quote:
[...]
Treasure Map is a vast NSA campaign to map the global internet. The program doesn’t just seek to chart data flows in large traffic channels, such as telecommunications cables. Rather, it seeks to identify and locate every single device that is connected to the internet somewhere in the world—every smartphone, tablet, and computer—”anywhere, all the time,” according to NSA documents. Its internal logo depicts a skull superimposed onto a compass, the eyeholes glowing demonic red.

The breathtaking mission is described in a document from the archive of NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden provided to The Intercept and Der Spiegel. Treasure Map’s goal is to create an “interactive map of the global internet” in “almost real time.” Employees of the so-called “Five Eyes” intelligence alliance—England, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand—can install and use the program on their own computers. It evokes a kind of Google Earth for global data traffic, a bird’s eye view of the planet’s digital arteries.
[...]
http://i60.tinypic.com/2a7ty7t.jpg
[...]
http://i60.tinypic.com/2qbd8pc.jpg
[...]
Deutsche Telekom, of which the German government owns more than 30 percent, is one of the dozen or so international telecommunications companies that operate global networks—so-called Tier 1 providers. In Germany alone, Deutsche Telekom claims to provide mobile phone services, internet, and land lines to 60 million customers.
... ... ...
Olivier5
 
  1  
Sun 14 Sep, 2014 07:29 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Go back to the beginning of our discussion. And while you are at it, you might want to check on who used the expression "considered to be" first in this thread.

Indeed, you used that expression. Therefore you agree with it, even though you are now too much of a weasel to admit it squarely.

So we agree: a law is assumed or considered constitutional until ruled otherwise. Just like Snowden is presumed innocent until proved otherwise. But you wouldn't that he IS innocent. Similarly, one cannot truly say that the mass spying programs ARE constitutional. The best one can say is that they are "considered" constitutional until proven otherwise.

And that clears this stupid debate.

Olivier5
 
  0  
Sun 14 Sep, 2014 07:59 am
@One Eyed Mind,
Quote:
Fighting with Frank, is like yelling at a chameleon.

Or at a weasel...
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  2  
Sun 14 Sep, 2014 08:15 am
@Olivier5,
No it doesn't because Snowden admitted he took the documents. He just feels justified in doing so and all it remains is a court to either agree with him or disagree with him. No admission of guilt has been made by the administration of guilt of the programs.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sun 14 Sep, 2014 08:20 am
The latest about this "double-spy' Markus R. (the CIA-spy, who was working in the German foreign spy agency).
According to Spiegel and spiegelonline, the FederalGenaral Prosecutor told the chairmen in the parliamentary committee that they can't unlock his laptop: he communicated with the CIA via a weather app (for New York), but until now they couldn't decode how to open this communication channel.

Besides that, it is not clear, if he will be accused for 'treason' or 'working for a foreign intelligence service'.
revelette2
 
  3  
Sun 14 Sep, 2014 08:23 am
@Walter Hinteler,
When you say, "until now" do you mean now they have unlocked the code or they still haven't?
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sun 14 Sep, 2014 08:36 am
@revelette2,
That information was given this week at the meeting of the committee.
BillRM
 
  4  
Sun 14 Sep, 2014 08:42 am
Quote:


http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/governments-invade-privacy-tools-encryption-grow-popular/


As governments invade privacy, tools for encryption grow more popular


BY Charles Pulliam-Moore August 22, 2014 at 7:06 PM EDT
3696386615_2e5538e680_oIn the wake of Edward Snowden’s revelations about the NSA collecting massive amounts of user meta-data, many people went in search of safer, more secure ways to use the internet anonymously. Once thought to be something only used by the tech-savvy, increased interest in end-to-end e-mail encryption has prompted both Google and Yahoo to develop user-friendly versions of the protocol that would, in theory, make personal messages exceedingly difficult to intercept.

GeeksPhone, a Spanish hardware manufacturer, and Silent Circle, U.S. communication firm, promise to provide the same kind of privacy with Blackphone, the first fully encrypted smartphone meant for the average consumer. While technically an Android device, Blackphone runs a forked version of the operating system called PrivatOS that rids the phone of any and all connections to Google’s servers.

Encrypting e-mail is effective, but requires that both the sender and recipient of a message use the same specific encryption protocol to maintain privacy. Blackphone, for all of the protection that it provides, cuts users off from most of the services–like games, maps, and other functions–so as to make sure that there are absolutely no gaps through which information might be extracted.

The Onion Router also known as Tor, a browser designed keep users entirely anonymous, is something of a happy medium, and the NSA is actively trying to scare people away from it. Tor guides its internet traffic through complex networks of layered encryption that hide a computer’s physical location and make it nearly impossible to monitor the IP addresses that it visits.

Post-Snowden, Tor saw a substantial increase in the number of people using its browser and network, undoubtedly in-part due to privacy concerns. Documents published by The Guardian revealed that the NSA were actively engaged with attempting to infiltrate Tor’s network, and considered the browser to be “the king of high-secure, low-latency anonymity.” Following widespread, successful-attempts at tracking Tor users’ activity, the FBI openly admitted to exploiting a loophole in Tor’s infrastructure as a part of a larger operation in pursuit of a child pornography ring.

Authorities have justified their pushes into the “anonymous internet,” asserting that by and large, much of Tor’s traffic is related to illegal activities, but that seems to be changing. Richard David James, better known by his stage name Aphex Twin, is a fixture in the electronic music scene. Earlier this week James announced his latest album using a website that could only be accessed using Tor, drawing in a significant number of pageviews in a single day.

The attention, says Tor executive director Andrew Lewman, is both a blessing and a curse. While Tor’s network was able to handle the 133,000 visits that Aphex Twin drew, he doubts whether it could withstand the kinds of gargantuan traffic that Facebook sees on a daily basis. Tor users, comparatively speaking, are rare–a fact that Lewman asserts is what makes them targets for governmental organizations.

“It’s been co-opted by GCHQ and the NSA that if you’re using Tor, you must be a criminal,” Lewman explained to The Guardian. “I know the NSA and GCHQ want you to believe that Tor users are already suspect, because, you know, god forbid who would want their privacy online, they must be terrorists.”

Proponents of Tor and other forms of ubiquitous encryption have called for the public to adopt the technologies on a larger scale, logic stating that if everyone is using encryption, then no one can be singled out for it. Rather than adopting the small, experimental proofs of concept like Tor, Lewman says, true privacy on the internet will come when internet juggernauts like Facebook, Twitter, and Google incorporate the technology into their platforms, making them the standard rather than the exception.

revelette2
 
  3  
Sun 14 Sep, 2014 08:55 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Forgive me, but, I am trying to understand if the code of his laptop has been broken or not, I didn't understand from your post in which I replied. I am not sure what you mean when you say, "until now."
revelette2
 
  3  
Sun 14 Sep, 2014 09:06 am
@BillRM,
That's it, make it harder for the government to track down terrorist. Sometimes you guys act like the only reason the government uses these programs are just to spy on ordinary citizens as though they have the time or inclination to listen or read every single person on earth's every single word just for the joy of it.

I am not saying safeguards shouldn't be in place and if those safeguards are not sufficient, then make better ones. I am also not saying everyday people shouldn't try to encrypt their online activity, after all it is a free country. I just wish people would stop acting like all these programs are in place for no better reason than to just spy on everybody just for the sake of spying.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sun 14 Sep, 2014 09:12 am
@revelette2,
They got those 201 documents on his USB-stick.
In his first interrogation, he said, he had to open a weather app, ask for weather data from from New York and then a communication channel with his contacts would open.
Since he is silent since then (July), since they can't encode the 'entry' o this communication channel, it is unknown, if he had sent more documents, and to whom.

But since Obama vowed intelligence cooperation to Merkel - perhaps the USA will help us Wink
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Sun 14 Sep, 2014 09:15 am
@revelette2,
Sometimes I get the idea that imprisoning everyone would really keep criminality generally very low ...
Olivier5
 
  1  
Sun 14 Sep, 2014 09:20 am
@revelette2,
You really want to drag that any longer? It makes no difference anyway. Innocent until proven guilty still applies.
revelette2
 
  3  
Sun 14 Sep, 2014 09:35 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Ok, I understand, they got the ones on USB thing, but, they can't find out if he had anymore because they encode the App.

On,
Quote:
Sometimes I get the idea that imprisoning everyone would really keep criminality generally very low ...


That sounds real good and sophisticated, however, it really don't apply to tracking down terrorist and spying vs. criminal behavior. The idea of tracking down terrorist is to track them before they actually carry out their plots, to get them in the plotting stage, you would have to either have someone on the inside or have some kind of listening or tracking device to hear or read them plotting. You want them in plotting stage before people get hurt or killed. Generally, you don't arrest a bank robber, for example, until they actually rob bank.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  2  
Sun 14 Sep, 2014 09:35 am
@Olivier5,
Cop out.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Sun 14 Sep, 2014 09:40 am
@revelette2,
Try and be serious, Rev. Innocent until proven guilty still applies to this case. That is a fact.
BillRM
 
  4  
Sun 14 Sep, 2014 09:47 am
@revelette2,
Quote:
Sometimes you guys act like the only reason the government uses these programs are just to spy on ordinary citizens as though they have the time or inclination to listen or read every single person on earth's every single word just for the joy of it.


Massive and I mean massive spying is what this current infrastructure is design to do.

A few thousands terrorists can be deal with by a far less overwhelming infrastructure in fact there is zero showing to date that this spy on everyone methods is at all useful as an anti-terrorism tool.

Kind of useful without question if you wish to find information to discredit anyone that those in power do not care for such as leaking the porn viewing habits and that was in fact was one of the programs that was contained in Snowden released papers.

Your budget is in danger of being cut by congress just do what Hoover did reached into the database to find out who had been bad boys or girls in congress that you can blackmail into voting for an increased not a decreased budget.

Already people, by at least by one study, are becoming reluctant to openly discussed their opinions concerning government spying on the internet.

It kind of hard to have a free society when there fear of having legal but perhaps moral failings exposed it you annoyed those in control of the government intelligence databases.

Oh as far as everyday people being spy on, once more referring to Snowden releases , any email that is encrypted is store for future attacks so it is very likely that some of my and my wife emails that we encrypted to protected financial matters is at this moment setting on some hard drive in Utah.

Then there is the little matter of anyone who dare to download such programs as TOR or Truecrypt is also on some damn government database unless they had taken other precautions not to be.

There is a constitutional right to privacy for a reason even if people like you would wish to give up that right on any excuse to do so.
revelette2
 
  2  
Sun 14 Sep, 2014 10:11 am
@Olivier5,
True, Snowden is innocent until proven guilty which is why Frank has been saying since day one he deserves a fair trial. It is not true that the government is innocent until proven guilty because they haven't officially been accused of a crime nor have they admitted such. In other words, apples and oranges.
revelette2
 
  3  
Sun 14 Sep, 2014 10:24 am
@BillRM,
Just answer me one question? Tell me another method to track terrorist other spying in some form or another? How would you limit it, how would you know beforehand who is the terrorist to spy on and who is not a terrorist so you don't spy on them? It is not as though terrorist openly plot out their plans by calling up the government to tell them "hey, we are going to bomb all your underground subways in New York on such and such date."
 

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