Snowdon is a dummy

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
Even if they wanted to...it is virtually impossible.
That's what the Stasi noticed as well - the phone-hacking departments were there largest units, and they couldn't follow all calls (even with the small number of those in the GDR).

Frank Apisa wrote:
What they are looking for are indications and patterns of contacts with known suspects...so that a chance of intercepting something of consequences is more likely.

Well, that's what the Stasi was looking for as well. (And they were suspecious when hearing some "key words", too)

Try not to let your nation's history bother you so much, Walter...and you ought really to try not to equate that history with what is happening right now...the subject of this discussion.

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@Walter Hinteler,

You have a habit of comparing everything to the sad period in your history as though anything that is similar is automatically bad. The very real difference is we really are looking for terrorist. Personally I hope there are more sophisticated ways of doing it which don't involve all these things which cause so much objection and perhaps might not be very efficient. I am optimistic enough to think there will be.

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@revelette2,

revelette2 wrote:

You have a habit of comparing everything to the sad period in your history as though anything that is similar is automatically bad. The very real difference is we really are looking for terrorist. Personally I hope there are more sophisticated ways of doing it which don't involve all these things which cause so much objection and perhaps might not be very efficient. I am optimistic enough to think there will be.

In a perverse way, Walter is bolstering the NSA's actions.

The Stasi did indeed use those methods.

The Stasi was interested in protecting the government of East Germany from people who were trying to bring it down.

We may despise the Stasi...and feel all sorts of compassion for what the people of East Germany had to endure...

...but the spying the Stasi did was designed to protect the state of East Germany.

The spying the NSA is doing is designed to protect the United States of America.

Is it effective: Yes.

Is it perfect: No.

Is it reasonable: In my opinion, it certainly is not unreasonable.

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@revelette2,

revelette2 wrote:

You have a habit of comparing everything to the sad period in your history as though anything that is similar is automatically bad. The very real difference is we really are looking for terrorist. Personally I hope there are more sophisticated ways of doing it which don't involve all these things which cause so much objection and perhaps might not be very efficient. I am optimistic enough to think there will be.

Well, it's not only my "bad habit" - many here remember the last period, some even that under the Nazis.

I don't really compare it, but the terminology was the very same.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

I will finish this thing you started, Olivier.

Whatever it is you think I started, get it finished already! What the heck are you waiting for?.. My blessing? You got it.

1 Reply

@revelette2,

Quote:

The very real difference is we really are looking for terrorist.

Merkel included...

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@revelette2,

Quote:

The very real difference is we really are looking for terrorist.

More like using the terrorism threat as an excused to set up a total surveillance state.

A surveillance state that up to this point in time had shown itself not very useful in fighting that threat.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Yes, people my age would remember it…as I remember those days as lived in the United States during the war.

It must be horrible for people over there to remember what happened…particularly the end days.

We were lucky over here…no mass destruction like happened in Europe. (The next one…and it is seeming more likely every day that there will be a “next one”…we probably will not be so lucky.)

But the governments of every nation have the right and obligation to protect their nation from perceived enemies...and sometimes that means taking actions that most would rather not be taken.

The NSA is doing that.

Are they being excessive…well, some think they are…and some think not.

So far, I see no evidence that what they are doing is illegal. SCOTUS certainly has not ruled that way…so even any minor moves in that direction from lesser courts are still up for inspection.

In any case, I see most of what is being vomited here in a way different from what the people doing the vomiting are suggesting. I see people who are bad-mouthing the US relentlessly…and then pretending they are interesting in helping keep America from destroying itself from within.

Horse feathers!

There is intense dislike and jealousy obviously at work.

Nothing wrong with that…but don’t expect to get a free pass on doing it. Not here.

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
I will finish this thing you started, Olivier.

Whatever it is you think I started, get it finished already! What the heck are you waiting for?.. My blessing? You got it.

That IS what I am doing, Olivier...so keep watching.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Quote:

Merkel included...

To say nothing of looking for terrorists by hacking into congressional computer networks.

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@Olivier5,

Who knows? Just kidding. However, as we have found out, we are hardly the only nation who spies on allies for one reason or another.

I do not deny NSA has abused it powers. However, most of the spying is connected to trying to track down terrorist. If you guys can't acknowledge that, then you are intellectually dishonest in your posting.

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@revelette2,

Quote:

However, most of the spying is connected to trying to track down terrorist

BULLSHIT...................

1 Reply

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Quote:
However, most of the spying is connected to trying to track down terrorist

BULLSHIT...................

Bill...save it.

Most of the spying is connected to trying to track down terrorists...and it is possible that ALL of it is.

But I know...for you, there has to be a grassy knoll everywhere.

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@revelette2,

revelette2 wrote:

However, most of the spying is connected to trying to track down terrorist.

That's what is said by them.
From my personal experiences I don't think that any 'spy agency' would honestly admit that they did something unlawful.

revelette2 wrote:

If you guys can't acknowledge that, then you are intellectually dishonest in your posting.

I don't think that I'm dishonest ... actually,twice some members of some "agencies" told not to be so honest Very Happy

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Quote:

There is no whistleblower exception in the Espionage Act.

Is that a fact? Not even for permanent staff of the NSA and co?

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
There is no whistleblower exception in the Espionage Act.

Is that a fact? Not even for permanent staff of the NSA and co?

There is NO whistleblower exception whatsoever. That has been mentioned in dozens of media reports.

1 Reply

@revelette2,

Quote:

You have a habit of comparing everything to the sad period in your history as though anything that is similar is automatically bad.

Europe has been there... the surveillance state, where the US is going. Based on that experience, what Walter is telling you is: "Don't go there or you'll come to bitterly regret it."

Ignore this advice at your own peril.

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@revelette2,

Quote:

I do not deny NSA has abused it powers. However, most of the spying is connected to trying to track down terrorist. If you guys can't acknowledge that, then you are intellectually dishonest in your posting.

Are we supposed to take your word for it, or do you have proof of what you're saying? To be intellectually honest, you'd have to have good reasons to say that.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

You know if NSA budget of about a 52 plus billions dollars a year is aim primarily at a few thousand terrorists we are over spending greatly.

Hell for far less then those billions a year we could buy every terrorists on the planet and set them each up with 72 virgins if need be...LOL.

No that budget is aim at spying on everyone in the first world including the US taxpayers.

All the terrorists in the world could not full up the tens of thousands of hard drives in Utah alone in a million years.

The set up is aim at the bulk of the human race not a few thousands terrorists.

1 Reply

This is an abuse of power that can easily be manipulated for political purposes e.g. Nixon.

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Snowdon is a dummy

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