42
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 29 Aug, 2014 02:59 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
It's not 'theory;' it's the law of the land. We are a country of laws first - not theories. Theories are open to debate. There's a process of how laws are established in this country.

Quote:
Creating laws is the U.S. House of Representatives' most important job. All laws in the United States begin as bills. Before a bill can become a law, it must be approved by the U.S. House of Representatives, the U.S. Senate, and the President.
cicerone imposter
 
  5  
Fri 29 Aug, 2014 03:26 pm
@cicerone imposter,
The ISIS article by Snowden (as presented above by me) is a complete hoax.
Moment-in-Time
 
  -1  
Fri 29 Aug, 2014 04:02 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:

It's not 'theory;' it's the law of the land. We are a country of laws first - not theories. Theories are open to debate. There's a process of how laws are established in this country.



We know it's the law of the land, and I should not have used the word "theory"; however, in practice, only some people actually get a fair trial....say a white person will get a fairer trial by judge and jury before a black and they are both human beings. I believe Trayvon Martin was murdered by Zimmerman, but a better lawyer won and the Martin family lost.

Are you able to comprehend what I'm saying, CI. The Constitution may say one thing but in practice, in our imperfect world of humans, there is reality!
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 29 Aug, 2014 04:08 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
You wrote,
Quote:
however, in practice, only some people actually get a fair trial..


I've covered this issue in a previous post, and won't be repeating it here, but to say "it's the best any democracy has."
0 Replies
 
Moment-in-Time
 
  -1  
Fri 29 Aug, 2014 04:10 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:

The ISIS article by Snowden (as presented above by me) is a complete hoax.


I thought something was wrong and it left me baffled but determined not to pursue it.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Fri 29 Aug, 2014 08:48 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
Moment-in-Time wrote:
I believe Trayvon Martin was murdered by Zimmerman, but a better lawyer won and the Martin family lost.

That's silly. Even at the worst, the circumstances would only have justified manslaughter.

But not only is there no evidence of that supposed manslaughter, there is good evidence that this was a case of self defense.

You just like sending innocent people to prison.

It's because of your support for the Palestinians. Anyone who supports the Palestinians is a bad person.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  3  
Fri 29 Aug, 2014 09:55 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
That is handled by the SCOTUS.


True. But I think that a politically devisive SC is as dishonest as out congress and even more politicized. Hell two of them are bought by the Koch brothers.
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Sat 30 Aug, 2014 05:19 am
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:

Quote:
That is handled by the SCOTUS.


True. But I think that a politically devisive SC is as dishonest as out congress and even more politicized. Hell two of them are bought by the Koch brothers.


The conduct of the SCOTUS bothers me as much as you, Rabel...and I agree that it has become a political animal. I agree with you completely on that.

But it will rule whether particular actions are constitutional or unconstitutional...not ci nor anyone else in A2K.

I despair of what has become of our congress these days...but they pass laws (or don't pass laws)...and the laws are the laws of the land.

That is the way the system works.
RABEL222
 
  2  
Sat 30 Aug, 2014 05:20 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I unhappily admit your right but I sure as hell dont have to like it and show my displeasure by voting against incumbants in the house. Neither dems or repubs are doing their job.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sun 31 Aug, 2014 05:22 am
A Two-Faced Friendship: Turkey Is 'Partner and Target' for the NSA
Quote:
Documents from the archive of whistleblower Edward Snowden reveal wide-scale spying against Turkey by America's NSA and Britain's GCHQ. They also show the US worked closely with Ankara to battle Kurdish separatists.
[...]
During the Cold War, the US used bases in Turkey primarily to conduct surveillance against the "underbelly of the Soviet beast," as one NSA document puts it. Today, it targets Russia and Georgia from Turkish soil, collecting information in "near real time." Since the outbreak of its civil war, Turkey's neighbor Syria has become a central focus of NSA surveillance.

US secret agents have also provided support to the Turkish government in its battle against the Kurdish separatists with the PKK for years. One top-secret NSA document from January 2007, for example, states that the agency provided Turkey with geographic data and recordings of telephone conversations of PKK members that appear to have helped Turkish agents capture or kill the targets. "Geolocations data and voice cuts from Kurdistan Worker Party (PKK) communications which were passed to Turkey by NSA yielded actionable intelligence that led to the demise or capture of dozens of PKK members in the past year," the document says.

The NSA has also infiltrated the Internet communications of PKK leaders living in Europe. Turkish intelligence helped pave the way to the success by providing the email addresses used by the targets.

The exchange of data went so far that the NSA even gave Turkey the location of the mobile phones of certain PKK leaders inside Turkey, providing updated information every six hours. During one military operation in Turkey in October 2005, the NSA delivered the location data every hour.
[...]
At the same time, however, Turkey is itself the target of intense surveillance even as it cooperates closely with the US. One NSA document describes the country bluntly as both a "partner and target." The very politicians, military officials and intelligence agency officials with whom US officials work closely when conducting actions against the PKK are also considered legitimate spying targets by the NSA. To that end, in addition to the official SUSLAT liaison office and the intelligence workers it has cleared with the Turkish authorities, the US has two secret branch offices, operating Special Collection Service listening stations in both Istanbul and the capital city of Ankara.

The degree to which the NSA surveils its partner is made clear in the National Intelligence Priorities Framework (NIPF), a document establishing US intelligence priorities. Updated and presented to the president every six months, the NIPF shows a country's "standing" from the perspective of the US. In the April 2013 edition, Turkey is listed as one of the countries most frequently targeted by Washington for surveillance, with US intelligence services tasked with collecting data in 19 different areas of interest.

The document places Turkey at the level of Venezuela -- and even ahead of Cuba -- in terms of US interest in intelligence collection. ... ... ...
[...]
It goes without saying that the US intelligence services also had Turkish diplomats in their sights, particularly those stationed in the United States. A classified document from 2010 states that the NSA surveilled the Turkish Embassy in Washington under a program codenamed "Powder." A similar project for monitoring Turkey's representation to the United Nations carried the name "Blackhawk."

Analysts had access to the telephone system in the Turkish Embassy and could tap content directly from computers. In addition, they infected computer systems used by the diplomats with spyware. The NSA also installed Trojan software at Turkey's UN representation in New York. According to the NSA document, it even has the capability of copying entire hard drives at the UN mission.

The NSA shared many of its spies' insights with its "Five Eyes" partners -- the British, Canadian, Australian and New Zealand intelligence services. Within that group, the British had already developed their own access to Turkey, with its GCHQ spy agency monitoring political targets in Turkey as well as elements in the energy sector.
[...]
Turkish Finance Minister Mehmet Simsek is also explicitly named as a GCHQ "target," despite the fact that he is a dual Turkish-British citizen. Nevertheless, a surveillance order against him includes, among other things, two mobile phone numbers as well as his private Gmail address. When questioned by SPIEGEL reporters, GCHQ officials said they do not comment on the details of operations.

When The Guardian newspaper ran a short story last summer about a planned spying operation against the Turkish finance minister on the occasion of his visit to London in the run-up to the G-20 summit in 2009, officials in Ankara were so angered that the Foreign Ministry summoned the British ambassador and criticized the "scandalous" and "unacceptable" operation. Contacted for a response to the surveillance operations conducted by the NSA and GCHQ, a spokesman for the Turkish Foreign Ministry said "such things" would only be discussed at the diplomatic level.
revelette2
 
  1  
Sun 31 Aug, 2014 11:02 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I doubt anyone is surprised. Again, I am just disgusted at Snowden for revealing all this stuff instead of the US for spying.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sun 31 Aug, 2014 11:24 am
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:

I doubt anyone is surprised. Again, I am just disgusted at Snowden for revealing all this stuff instead of the US for spying.


Amen, Revelette!

No one should be surprised...and it is disgusting that Snowden stole all this stuff and revealed it to the world...harming the west's ability to contain some of the extremism in the world.

But I want to go on record as saying that I still think he deserves a fair trial.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sun 31 Aug, 2014 12:10 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
No one should be surprised...and it is disgusting that Snowden stole all this stuff and revealed it to the world...harming the west's ability to contain some of the extremism in the world.
No one is surprised, but the "the west's ability to contain some of the extremism in the world" is harmed.
That means, most people (including the "terrorists" should have known it before, isn't it?

But who is "the west"??? Does this term include those countries the USA spies/spied on? Doubtful.

So just those five from the "club"?
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Sun 31 Aug, 2014 12:29 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
No one should be surprised...and it is disgusting that Snowden stole all this stuff and revealed it to the world...harming the west's ability to contain some of the extremism in the world.
No one is surprised, but the "the west's ability to contain some of the extremism in the world" is harmed.
That means, most people (including the "terrorists" should have known it before, isn't it?



Huh??? I honestly do not understand what you are getting at here, Walter.


Quote:
But who is "the west"???


It is a term used in political discussions to denote the western democracies...as opposed to the east.


Quote:
Does this term include those countries the USA spies/spied on? Doubtful.


I disagree with you here, Walter. I think it almost certainly does. I think the USA has probably spied (in a fashion) on all the so-called western states.

Quote:


So just those five from the "club"?


Once again, you have lost me. I am not sure of what you are talking about here.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sun 31 Aug, 2014 01:38 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
It is a term used in political discussions to denote the western democracies...as opposed to the east.
Well, since a part of the former "east" is part of my home country, many eastern democracies are members of the EU and NATO - we use different terms her, like the proper names of countries.

(So we would be 2/3 west and 1/3 east. But with an eastern president and also an eastern chancellor.)
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 31 Aug, 2014 01:39 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
Once again, you have lost me. I am not sure of what you are talking about here.
I've noticed this since some months. Sorry.
Frank Apisa
 
  -1  
Sun 31 Aug, 2014 01:42 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
It is a term used in political discussions to denote the western democracies...as opposed to the east.
Well, since a part of the former "east" is part of my home country, many eastern democracies are members of the EU and NATO - we use different terms her, like the proper names of countries.


And your point is....WHAT?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sun 31 Aug, 2014 01:44 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
Berlin Blockade
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Bombing of Berlin in World War II
West Berlin & East Berlin
Berlin Wall
"Ich bin ein Berliner" (1963)
"Tear Down This Wall" (1987)
Federal Republic of Germany (1990–present)
History of Germany & History of Europe
See also
Timeline of Berlin
v t e
The Berlin blockade (24 June 1948 – 12 May 1949) was one of the first major international crises of the Cold War. During the multinational occupation of post–World War II Germany, the Soviet Union blocked the Western Allies' railway, road, and canal access to the sectors of Berlin under allied control. Their aim was to force the western powers to allow the Soviet zone to start supplying Berlin with food, fuel, and aid, thereby giving the Soviets practical control over the entire city.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Mon 1 Sep, 2014 08:17 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I imagine the those in Turkey did know we spied on them before "Snowden" revealed it. If they didn't, I imagine they guessed it before the article you posted came out since for about a year or longer news of this sort has been coming out about all the places and people the US has been spying on.

In other words what I should have said, the article is really uninteresting after all this time of hearing the same for over a year.

What was news and what the terrorist didn't know was the methods we used to spy on them and they have found ways to go around that. I imagine by now, we have found ways to deal with that as well. At least I hope so
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Mon 1 Sep, 2014 08:31 am
@revelette2,
When you say so.

On the other hand, Turkey has summoned the US envoy over the US spying. ("Envoy", because the United States doesn't have an ambassador to Turkey since some time.)
 

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