42
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 28 Aug, 2014 08:34 pm
@RABEL222,
Sling all you want! You have my blessings. Laughing Laughing Laughing
0 Replies
 
Moment-in-Time
 
  1  
Thu 28 Aug, 2014 09:01 pm
@RABEL222,
Quote:
. Snowden is in Russia. Fine with me. Hope he stays there till he dies.


Mr. Edward Snowden might return to the US sooner than later. I watched a video interview of Snowden who admitted he most likely is under surveillance by the Russian government; that he lives a solitary life. The NSA former contractor did not forget to thank Russia for the opportunity to remain there.

" Edward Snowden: 'If I end up in chains in Guantánamo I can live with that' "

http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2014/jul/17/edward-snowden-video-interview
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Thu 28 Aug, 2014 09:17 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
What you failed to include was Snowden's request to the US for a fair trial that was never responded to.
Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Fri 29 Aug, 2014 04:57 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

I respect Snowden's dirty little hands over your dirty minds. Without Snowden, we wouldn't know that the US government broke the laws of our land and our Constitution. That's the primary law that protects all Americans - or should.


You don't get to decide whether the US government "broke the laws of our land and our Constitution" ci. The Supreme Court does that...and so far it has not said that anything the NSA was doing was/is unconstitutional.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Fri 29 Aug, 2014 04:59 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

What you failed to include was Snowden's request to the US for a fair trial that was never responded to.


Snowden can get a fair trial anytime he wants. He can just come back to the United States...and the Justice Department will be happy to grant him that request.

The last thing in the world that Snowden wants...is a fair trial.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Fri 29 Aug, 2014 05:16 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
The last thing in the world that Snowden wants...is a fair trial.
But obviously his lawyers want(ed) a fair trial when they negotiate(d) with the USA. Might well be that acted without his consent - does your source say anything about that?
Frank Apisa
 
  4  
Fri 29 Aug, 2014 05:25 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
The last thing in the world that Snowden wants...is a fair trial.
But obviously his lawyers want(ed) a fair trial when they negotiate(d) with the USA. Might well be that acted without his consent - does your source say anything about that?


No, Walter...they did not want a fair trial either...and just because they said they did does not make it a fact any more than Snowden saying so.

If they wanted a "fair trial"...they would have produced their client and had him tried in the United States on the charges brought forth against him.

What they want is for new laws to be passed that allow for their client to walk...even if the government can prove that he violated existing laws.

It would be like a guy robbing a bank...and using the money to help "the poor"...and asking for a fair trial...but meaning, "First pass a Robin Hood law...make it retroactive...and then try me. That I will consider "fair."

It doesn't work that way, Walter...and by now you should realize it.

The lawyers you mentioned did not want a fair trial at all...and still don't. Snowden doesn't either.
RABEL222
 
  3  
Fri 29 Aug, 2014 01:18 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I agree with everything you said. If he gits a fair trial he will end up in jail unless the jury thinks he was in the right to publish material that was damaging to the US which is very possible. The opinions on this site seem to be 50 50. It might be very hard to get an impartial jury.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Fri 29 Aug, 2014 01:21 pm
@RABEL222,
I think if Snowden is promised a fair trial, he would be willing to return to the US regardless of the outcome.
Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Fri 29 Aug, 2014 01:55 pm
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:

I agree with everything you said. If he gits a fair trial he will end up in jail unless the jury thinks he was in the right to publish material that was damaging to the US which is very possible. The opinions on this site seem to be 50 50. It might be very hard to get an impartial jury.


The jury can nullify...or so I am told. The judge will undoubtedly have something to say about that...if it ever comes to a trial.

MY GUESS: If Snowden ever man's up and comes back the the US...he will cop a plea. It ain't gonna be pretty...and I doubt the government will negotiate unless he is back on US soil.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Fri 29 Aug, 2014 02:02 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
I think if Snowden is promised a fair trial, he would be willing to return to the US regardless of the outcome.


I think that he have zero obligations to place himself at the mercy of the Federal government.

He done his duty and far more in warning all of us of how out of control the US intelligence agencies happen to be and he gave up a comfort life and his own nation as the price of doing so.

No matter if you call it a fair trial or an unfair trial he have zero duty to take the chance of spending decades or perhaps the rest of his life in a small cell for the crime of warning us all of this danger to our liberty while those who had broken faith with our constitution remain in positions of power and trust they clearly do not deserve to hold.

0 Replies
 
Moment-in-Time
 
  2  
Fri 29 Aug, 2014 02:03 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:

The lawyers you mentioned did not want a fair trial at all...and still don't. Snowden doesn't either.


I agree, Frank Apisa. Snowden's lawyers most likely are desperately trying to make a deal with the US that favors their thieving client. Logically, unless the US can get its hands on the remaining classified documents that's yet to be released, they are not going to be that restrained with respect to Snowden. The NSA contractor committed a crime; he stole millions of classified documents and now he wants to get off pretty easy, possibly a pat on the back for what he did!......Snowden should have thought of the consequences before committing the theft. The US government is mighty pissed, and they all say they want Snowden brought back to face the music for the crime of stealing governmental highly sensitive confidential secrets.

I'm sure Snowden's lawyers are working diligently to pave a way for the criminal to return.
BillRM
 
  3  
Fri 29 Aug, 2014 02:10 pm
American citizens are becoming fearful of expressing opinions that those in power might not like.

How shameful is that we as a nation had allowed it to get to this point.


Quote:


http://www.prsa.org/SearchResults/view/10755/105/Have_Social_Media_Made_Us_More_Afraid_to_Express_P#.VADcsNJdVNg

August 26, 2014

The “spiral of silence,” the tendency of people not to express their views on policy issues when they believe their opinions will be unpopular, has only deepened on the social media that some had hoped would become forums for freer expression and broader public discourse.

According to a recent survey from Pew Research, Americans are even less likely to state their views about policy issues online than in person.

In particular, the survey sought people’s opinions on Edward Snowden’s 2013 revelations that the National Security Agency (NSA) conducts widespread surveillance of Americans’ phone and email records, and their willingness to express those views.

While 86 percent of survey respondents said they were willing to have an in-person conversation about the surveillance program, only 42 percent of those surveyed who use Facebook and Twitter were willing to post their views on the subject on those platforms.

Of the 14 percent who were unwilling to discuss the Snowden-NSA story in person, only 0.3 percent were willing to post their opinions about the controversy on social media. In-person and online, people were more inclined to express their views if they thought their audience would agree with them, and more likely to censor themselves when they believed others would disagree with their views.

The traditional explanation for the spiral of silence has been that people choose not to disclose their minority opinions for fear of being ridiculed and losing their friends. Pew Research studies have found that people are reluctant to express potentially unpopular views online because their posts stay on the Internet indefinitely and can be found by prospective employers or others with high status. — Greg Beaubien
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Fri 29 Aug, 2014 02:11 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
You people don't even know why all American citizens are afforded a 'fair trial.'

You want to upend our Constitution on the basis of your erroneous concept about our privacy rights that all government workers swore to uphold.

From Wiki.
Quote:
Right to a fair trial
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Rights of the accused
Fair trial Speedy trial Jury trial Counsel Presumption of innocence Exclusionary rule1 Self-incrimination Double jeopardy2

Law Criminal justice

The right to fair trial is an essential right in all countries respecting the rule of law. A trial in these countries that is deemed unfair will typically be restarted, or its verdict voided.

Various rights associated with a fair trial are explicitly proclaimed in Article 10 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the Sixth Amendment to the United States Constitution, and Article 6 of the European Convention of Human Rights, as well as numerous other constitutions and declarations throughout the world. There is no binding international law that defines what is or is not a fair trial, for example the right to a jury trial and other important procedures vary from nation to nation.


Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Fri 29 Aug, 2014 02:19 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

American citizens are becoming fearful of expressing opinions that those in power might not like.

How shameful is that we as a nation had allowed it to get to this point.


Quote:


http://www.prsa.org/SearchResults/view/10755/105/Have_Social_Media_Made_Us_More_Afraid_to_Express_P#.VADcsNJdVNg

August 26, 2014

The “spiral of silence,” the tendency of people not to express their views on policy issues when they believe their opinions will be unpopular, has only deepened on the social media that some had hoped would become forums for freer expression and broader public discourse.

According to a recent survey from Pew Research, Americans are even less likely to state their views about policy issues online than in person.

In particular, the survey sought people’s opinions on Edward Snowden’s 2013 revelations that the National Security Agency (NSA) conducts widespread surveillance of Americans’ phone and email records, and their willingness to express those views.

While 86 percent of survey respondents said they were willing to have an in-person conversation about the surveillance program, only 42 percent of those surveyed who use Facebook and Twitter were willing to post their views on the subject on those platforms.

Of the 14 percent who were unwilling to discuss the Snowden-NSA story in person, only 0.3 percent were willing to post their opinions about the controversy on social media. In-person and online, people were more inclined to express their views if they thought their audience would agree with them, and more likely to censor themselves when they believed others would disagree with their views.

The traditional explanation for the spiral of silence has been that people choose not to disclose their minority opinions for fear of being ridiculed and losing their friends. Pew Research studies have found that people are reluctant to express potentially unpopular views online because their posts stay on the Internet indefinitely and can be found by prospective employers or others with high status. — Greg Beaubien


Give it a break, Bill.

Anyone who has the guts...can say whatever they want in this country.

You certainly do...although you do not have the balls to actually do so using your real name.

All of us say what we will.

If you think you would be able to do this in Russia or China...you ought to give it a shot.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Fri 29 Aug, 2014 02:21 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

You people don't even know why all American citizens are afforded a 'fair trial.'

You want to upend our Constitution on the basis of your erroneous concept about our privacy rights that all government workers swore to uphold.

From Wiki.
Quote:
Right to a fair trial
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Rights of the accused
Fair trial Speedy trial Jury trial Counsel Presumption of innocence Exclusionary rule1 Self-incrimination Double jeopardy2

Law Criminal justice

The right to fair trial is an essential right in all countries respecting the rule of law. A trial in these countries that is deemed unfair will typically be restarted, or its verdict voided.

Various rights associated with a fair trial are explicitly proclaimed in Article 10 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the Sixth Amendment to the United States Constitution, and Article 6 of the European Convention of Human Rights, as well as numerous other constitutions and declarations throughout the world. There is no binding international law that defines what is or is not a fair trial, for example the right to a jury trial and other important procedures vary from nation to nation.





Still ci does not get that HE does not determine what is constitutional...and what is not.

That is handled by the SCOTUS.

Tough for ci to understand...but that is one of the unfortunate consequences of a closed mind.
BillRM
 
  3  
Fri 29 Aug, 2014 02:26 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
Quote:
Logically, unless the US can get its hands on the remaining classified documents that's yet to be released, they are not going to be that restrained with respect to Snowden


What bullshit as the current holders of all that classify documents is not Snowden but instead are the editors and the reporters of the New York Time and the Guardian newspaper and for some not very strange reasons the government is not going into the New York Time and dragging out reporters and editors in handcuffs and then tearing the office apart searching for the documents.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Fri 29 Aug, 2014 02:54 pm
@BillRM,
Latest from the NYT.
Quote:
Asked on Friday for the White House’s view on the computer destruction in light of the remark that Mr. Ledgett, a career intelligence official, made in the newly disclosed emails, Shawn Turner, a White House spokesman, said, “This administration strongly believes in the value of a strong, independent press.

Mr. Turner added, “While the press has a responsibility to be mindful of the impact of revealing sensitive national security information, we have an even greater responsibility to be as transparent as possible with the American people about the government’s activities.”
Moment-in-Time
 
  2  
Fri 29 Aug, 2014 02:57 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:

You people don't even know why all American citizens are afforded a 'fair trial.'


I know that all Americans should have a fair trial; in theory this is true, in practice, well an experienced ingenious lawyer can get a jury to do what he wants. These brilliantly crafty lawyers can work miracles and possibly that is the type of lawyer(s) Mr. Edward Snowden is hiring, someone trying to outwit the US government.

Quote:
You want to upend our Constitution on the basis of your erroneous concept about our privacy rights that all government workers swore to uphold.


My, CI, you do hyperbolize! You infer I'm trying to overturn our Constitution because I refer to Snowden as the criminal? This suggestion is mind-boggling on several levels.

Among other things, Snowden signed an oath, as a condition of his employment as an NSA contractor, not to disclose classified information, and knew the penalties for violating the oath.

"Snowden had taken an oath—the Oath of Office, or appointment affidavit, given to all federal employees [Note: to clarify, this would have been when he was an employee earlier, for the C.I.A.]:

"I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God."


Edward Snowden is a bona fide thief! I refuse to call him a patriot like you. But then again you and I are at the opposite ends of the spectrum.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 29 Aug, 2014 02:57 pm
@cicerone imposter,
More interesting stuff from PolitiFact about the US and Israel. This should be an eye-opener.
Quote:
Bloggers: Edward Snowden leaked NSA documents show U.S., Israel created Islamic State
Pants on Fire!
Share this story:



Posts claim that "Edward Snowden has revealed that the British and American intelligence and the Mossad (Israel’s intelligence agency) worked together to create the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS).

Edward Snowden’s 2013 leak of classified NSA documents is perfect fodder for conspiracy theorists -- it has intrigue, still-unreleased documents, and the NSA as "Big Brother."

So it’s no surprise to see Snowden’s name attached to the increasingly popular idea that America and Israel created ISIS. On July 16, Bahrain’s Gulf Daily News reported that "Edward Snowden has revealed that the British and American intelligence and the Mossad (Israel’s intelligence agency) worked together to create the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS)." This operation, they said, was codenamed "Hornet’s Nest."
 

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