42
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
revelette2
 
  4  
Fri 15 Aug, 2014 07:38 am
@BillRM,
I have conceded more than once no one knew the details or the extent of the programs. However, people have known for years the government was spying without warrants with help from companies like Verizon and ATT, there have been articles and even people who have been against it all along before the Snowden revelations. Some senators have been objecting for years, mostly democrats, it was like they were crying in the dark with no one to hear them until Snowden came along. Obama in before 2007 was against NSA not having to go through FISA. before wiretapping people. That changed in 2007.

Quote:
On January 17, 2007, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales informed U.S. Senate leaders by letter [4] that the program would not be reauthorized by the President. "Any electronic surveillance that was occurring as part of the Terrorist Surveillance Program will now be conducted subject to the approval of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court," according to his letter.[31]



source
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 15 Aug, 2014 10:35 am
@revelette2,
It's just more proof that many in our government broke the laws of this country without being charged with any crimes.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Fri 15 Aug, 2014 10:57 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

I'm in anything but a foul mood, actually I'm appreciating the irony.


Why? Are you having a chicken sandwich?
izzythepush
 
  0  
Fri 15 Aug, 2014 11:20 am
@Frank Apisa,
No, that's a pun. I'm appreciating the irony of someone being too bloody minded to look up the definition of bloody minded.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Fri 15 Aug, 2014 11:54 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

No, that's a pun. I'm appreciating the irony of someone being too bloody minded to look up the definition of bloody minded.


Very ingaopooian of you. But I've come to expect that.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Fri 15 Aug, 2014 11:57 am
From the below named media:

The German Federal Intelligence Service (BND) tapped at least one phone call of the then Foreign Minister of the United States of America, Hillary Clinton. Furthermore, the German government ordered to spy on a NATO partner. According to "Süddeutsche Zeitung" (SZ), public broadcasters "NDR" and "WDR", this is the result from documents handed over to the US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) by a BND spy. Markus R., who was arrested in July, confessed in the meantime to have forwarded at least 218 documents to the USA within the last two years.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Fri 15 Aug, 2014 12:07 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

From the below named media:

The German Federal Intelligence Service (BND) tapped at least one phone call of the then Foreign Minister of the United States of America, Hillary Clinton. Furthermore, the German government ordered to spy on a NATO partner. According to "Süddeutsche Zeitung" (SZ), public broadcasters "NDR" and "WDR", this is the result from documents handed over to the US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) by a BND spy. Markus R., who was arrested in July, confessed in the meantime to have forwarded at least 218 documents to the USA within the last two years.



Thank you for this, Walter.

I wonder how many of the people who want Edward Snowden nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize...think Markus R. should also be nominated.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Fri 15 Aug, 2014 12:32 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
I wonder how many of the people who want Edward Snowden nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize...think Markus R. should also be nominated.
Don't you think that there's a difference between spying for a foreign (and here for money from this foreign nation) and leaking documents to the media?
RABEL222
 
  2  
Fri 15 Aug, 2014 12:42 pm
@blatham,
I started to read it but it is a whitewash of Mr. Snowden as the dark picture and the picture of him wrapped in an american flag shows. I dont need any more brainwashing than I have been subjected to, thank you.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Fri 15 Aug, 2014 12:45 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
Very ingaopooian of you. But I've come to expect that.


You should appreciate this.


No, really, you should appreciate this.
RABEL222
 
  2  
Fri 15 Aug, 2014 12:48 pm
@blatham,
Where do you live? Very Happy Smile Laughing
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Fri 15 Aug, 2014 12:54 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
I wonder how many of the people who want Edward Snowden nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize...think Markus R. should also be nominated.
Don't you think that there's a difference between spying for a foreign (and here for money from this foreign nation) and leaking documents to the media?


Yup, there is a difference.

But both involve individuals stealing classified information and releasing it to someone who should not be getting it.

You are assuming that if Markus R. actually did it, he did it for money.

People like you seem to suppose that if Edward Snowden actually did it...he did it for glorious, altruistic reasons.

Snowden may not have done it for those reasons at all. He may have done it for the notoriety and fame it would bring him. People have done much more bizarre things for notoriety and fame.

So the differences are not all that great.

In any case, I do wonder how many of the people who want Edward Snowden nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize...think Markus R. should also be nominated.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Fri 15 Aug, 2014 12:57 pm
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:

I started to read it but it is a whitewash of Mr. Snowden as the dark picture and the picture of him wrapped in an american flag shows. I dont need any more brainwashing than I have been subjected to, thank you.


That picture on the front cover is about as nausea inducing a picture as ever I have seen.

He actually posed for that picture. It caused me to second guess my initial response to the subject title...that he is not a dummy.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Fri 15 Aug, 2014 12:58 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
]Yup, there is a difference.

But both involve individuals stealing classified information and releasing it to someone who should not be getting it.

You are assuming that if Markus R. actually did it, he did it for money.
He did it for money - confessed it already - got 25,000 Euros from a foreign nation for some of those documents, a (yet not /publishedknown) additional sum for some others.
Actually, that's the classical definition for spying, isn't it?

Stealing is stealing.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Fri 15 Aug, 2014 01:01 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
In any case, I do wonder how many of the people who want Edward Snowden nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize...think Markus R. should also be nominated. [/b]
Perhaps those, who nominated other well known spies, like Klaus Fuchs, the Rosenbergs etc?
Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Fri 15 Aug, 2014 01:02 pm
@izzythepush,
Izzy, I broke a rule and actually viewed that video.

I loved it...and I agree that it was appropriate in our conversation at this point.

I am delighted to be in cyber-propinquity (if that is not oxymoronic) with you.

Thank you.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Fri 15 Aug, 2014 01:04 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
]Yup, there is a difference.

But both involve individuals stealing classified information and releasing it to someone who should not be getting it.

You are assuming that if Markus R. actually did it, he did it for money.
He did it for money - confessed it already - got 25,000 Euros from a foreign nation for some of those documents, a (yet not /publishedknown) additional sum for some others.


Be careful of trusting "confessions" in situations like this, Walter.

Quote:

Actually, that's the classical definition for spying, isn't it?

Stealing is stealing.


Actually, I do not think "payment of money" is a prerequisite for spying. It occasionally is done for less mundane reasons.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Fri 15 Aug, 2014 01:09 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I wouldn't have said you'd appreciate it if I didn't think you'd appreciate it.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Fri 15 Aug, 2014 01:11 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
In any case, I do wonder how many of the people who want Edward Snowden nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize...think Markus R. should also be nominated. [/b]
Perhaps those, who nominated other well known spies, like Klaus Fuchs, the Rosenbergs etc?


I cannot help but wonder how many of the people who nominated Klaus Fuchs and David and Ethel Rosenberg for the prize...also nominated Edward Snowden.

But on a serious note...yes, spies often are given hero status by some. Much, much less by others.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Fri 15 Aug, 2014 01:21 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
]Actually, I do not think "payment of money" is a prerequisite for spying. It occasionally is done for less mundane reasons.
Acronym "MICE" = "Money, Ideology, Compromise (or Coercion) and Ego (or Extortion)"
0 Replies
 
 

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