42
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Sat 2 Aug, 2014 07:01 am
@Frank Apisa,
You like to glorify yourself much, à la Romeo... But it's true your response to engineer, while void of argument, managed to remain civil. So you can behave, when you want. Smile

On the confusion between government and country, you can't possibly be serious. Do you really think MLK ought to have left his country rather than try to fix it?
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Sat 2 Aug, 2014 07:16 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

You like to glorify yourself much, à la Romeo...


No I do not, Olivier...and I suspect you know it. But that compulsion you have to throw a slur my way as often as possible really runs deep in you.

So indulge. I get a laugh out of it when I see it happening.



Quote:
But it's true your response to engineer, while void of argument, managed to remain civil. So you can behave, when you want. Smile


I am as civil as anyone else in this forum, Olivier...and a great deal more civil than many. I have attempted to be civil to both you and ci...only to be rebuffed for my efforts.

My response to Engineer was hardly void of reason, logic, or argument. He may disagree with my response, but I was sharing my considerations of the issue with him as honestly as I could.

But that compulsion you have to denigrate me as often as possible really runs deep in you.

So indulge. I get a laugh out of it when I see it happening.



Quote:
On the confusion between government and country, you can't possibly be serious. Do you really think MLK ought to have left his country rather than try to fix it?


If I heard MLK say that it doesn't matter who a vote is cast for...and that he was giving up on trying to fix things and refusing to vote at all...

...I would probably have suggested to him that he find peace elsewhere.

That essentially is what I hear coming from ci...so I have suggested he find peace by moving somewhere else where things are much better than he sees them being here.




Got any better material, Olivier?
Olivier5
 
  1  
Sat 2 Aug, 2014 08:05 am
@Frank Apisa,
Oh so you were patting ME in the back for MY response to engineer? Why, thanks... For one moment I thought you were so vain as to say YOUR own response to engineer was better than his post... Sorry, I should have known you can't possibly be that fatuous.

Quote:
If I heard MLK say that it doesn't matter who a vote is cast for...and that he was giving up on trying to fix things and refusing to vote at all...

Most of your compatriots never vote, and a great deal of them because they think their vote does not count. So you should tell a good hundred million Americans to leave.

Canadians, any interest is a mass emigration from below the border?
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Sat 2 Aug, 2014 08:19 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Oh so you were patting ME in the back for MY response to engineer? Why, thanks... For one moment I thought you were so vain as to say YOUR own response to engineer was better than his post... Sorry, I should have known you can't possibly be that fatuous.


You are getting desperate, Olivier, because you see you have dug yourself another hole...as you so often do when starting your nonsense with me.

I have no idea of what you were trying to communicate with that gibberish above...but if you manage to put it into something comprehensible, I will attempt to respond.


Quote:
Quote:
If I heard MLK say that it doesn't matter who a vote is cast for...and that he was giving up on trying to fix things and refusing to vote at all...

Most of your compatriots never vote, and a great deal of them because they think their vote does not count. So you should tell a good hundred million Americans to leave.


Anyone who has given up hope that America can become a better country than it is right now...and who has decided that not voting is the best way to deal with the situation as they view it...ought to leave America for someplace they consider better.

How was that, Olivier?

Keep digging, ole friend!


revelette2
 
  3  
Sat 2 Aug, 2014 08:43 am
I just shake my head reading all these posts because I know everyone of you know better it seems you do in your posts.

All Frank is saying is, from he has gathered in reading several posts of CI's is that CI thinks no matter who is elected to run the government, this country has no chance to get better than it is right now. Like there is nothing we can do to make it better so why bother to vote because no one can make it better.

MLK, did not think this country had no chance to get better, he had a dream that it would become better. He had hopes that it would. He encouraged people to make it happen. What if people who participated in the civil rights wars thought that nothing they can do will make it better so why bother trying? There would be no Rosa Parks, blacks would still be sitting in the back of the bus. We would still have segregated schools. Granted, we haven't come to the day where no one see people as people rather than the color of their skin, but blacks have equal rights and a place to address discrimination if they have been discriminated against. The same with women and the right to vote. There have always been grievances people have against the government, some of legitimate, but they didn't just say, our country won't get any better so I may as well give up. They worked to do something about it. If CI thinks NSA is doing something illegal, join with others who thinks the same. There are plenty of people in congress right now working to do just that.

Well, enough of the soap box.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Sat 2 Aug, 2014 08:46 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank wrote,
Quote:
You are getting desperate, Olivier, because you see you have dug yourself another hole...as you so often do when starting your nonsense with me.


It's endless! LOL He wouldn't know scorn or mocking if someone bothered to teach him.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Sat 2 Aug, 2014 08:50 am
@revelette2,
I understand what you're saying about MLK, but that was a different time and place when our government was working; we had the right people in the administration and congress who had the understanding of what civil rights was all about. This is a different time and age when the Tea Party has taken over our government, and nothing is working.

Our government can't even fund the crisis at the Mexican border - an urgent crisis about children, and the Tea Party is playing politics with this crisis.

We now have a party, the GOP, that works hard to disenfranchise voters in many states. They do everything in their power to disenfranchise women, minorities, seniors, students, the middle class and the poor, gays and lesbians, and almost everybody one can think of. Even the SCOTUS just voted to defend Hobby Lobby from providing contraception to women. The five men on the Supreme Court voted for it. Is the American people doing anything to change this? Show me? How long do you think it'll take to change this dastardly scenario? I'm a realist. At 79, there's not much more I can do for this country. I voted in all elections - both national and local, served in the military for four years, wrote to my congressmen and presidents, and none made any difference.

You can't see that difference? I can.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Sat 2 Aug, 2014 09:13 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Frank wrote,
Quote:
You are getting desperate, Olivier, because you see you have dug yourself another hole...as you so often do when starting your nonsense with me.


It's endless! LOL He wouldn't know scorn or mocking if someone bothered to teach him.


If anyone should teach scorn or mocking, ci...it would be you. You use scorn, derision and contempt regularly.

Yeah...I am using sarcasm...and a few insults as a return to what Olivier is saying.

I did not start it with Olivier...he intruded and started the nonsense...as he so often has done in the past. And he is getting what he gets every time.

As for you...I attempted a cordiality between us. You mentioned you were coming to New York...and I offered to escort you through Central Park (which I know very well) or to show you one of the many museums. This I did in the middle of one of those sustained disagreements of our.

The cordiality last for a few days...but then, out of nowhere and for no good reason, you lashed out at me again with your bull.

Grow up! At your age, you don't really have all that much longer to do it.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Sat 2 Aug, 2014 09:18 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

I understand what you're saying about MLK, but that was a different time and place when our government was working; we had the right people in the administration and congress who had the understanding of what civil rights was all about. This is a different time and age when the Tea Party has taken over our government, and nothing is working.

Our government can't even fund the crisis at the Mexican border - an urgent crisis about children, and the Tea Party is playing politics with this crisis.

We now have a party, the GOP, that works hard to disenfranchise voters in many states. They do everything in their power to disenfranchise women, minorities, seniors, students, the middle class and the poor, gays and lesbians, and almost everybody one can think of. Even the SCOTUS just voted to defend Hobby Lobby from providing contraception to women. The five men on the Supreme Court voted for it. Is the American people doing anything to change this? Show me? How long do you think it'll take to change this dastardly scenario? I'm a realist. At 79, there's not much more I can do for this country. I voted in all elections - both national and local, served in the military for four years, wrote to my congressmen and presidents, and none made any difference.

You can't see that difference? I can.


Great command of English, ci.

And...since you think nothing can be done to improve the lot of our nation...and have decided not even to try...

...it is not inappropriate for me to point out the option of you leaving the country.

Obviously you do not have to take the suggestion (I doubt seriously you would)...and you will continue to enjoy living a decent, reasonable life in the US...while bad-mouthing it at every opportunity.

People like you disgust me as much as this country and its people disgust you, ci.

We all have to live with that.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  3  
Sat 2 Aug, 2014 09:26 am
@cicerone imposter,
Oh, come on, CI? A different government at the time MLK gave his speech? A different government? Half of the people in government probably wore a KKK outfit at night. Most of the judges were openly racist. They just didn't have the name "Tea Party" but the mentality has always been there. There was change in the government because people forced it to change, now the tea party wants to change it back. So what do we do, just throw up our hands and let all the civil rights movement be in vain? I am not saying you personally have to go marching or anything, just don't give up on your country is all I am saying. If there is no one you like running for election, then of course don't vote. That is different thing than thinking there is no chance in things improving some day.

But we have derailed this thread and really, I don't know what else to say anyway. If you give up, you give up.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 2 Aug, 2014 09:33 am
Revelette is correct about the "derailing"...so allow me to put it back on the tracks:

Edward Snowden, in my opinion, is not a dummy...not in any way.

I think he is a misguided young man who has fried his life...and who has done much, much more damage than any good he thinks he has done.

But...like any American, he has a right to defend himself in a fair trial of his peers. I hope he gets that opportunity...which will only happen if he returns to the United States for that trial.

Otherwise...he is on the run in countries that will grant him asylum. I sincerely hope that if he decides on that course, he manages to live a decent life where he chooses. He will have to keep in mind though that the American justice system will not give up on trying to bring him back here to answer the charges.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Sat 2 Aug, 2014 11:27 am
@revelette2,
Congress had differences, but the civil rights act was passsed. Nothing in the current congress compares. This is also when the southern states were "democratic." What changes we have had since those days!

From Wiki.
Quote:
Johnson's appeal to Congress[edit]
The assassination of John F. Kennedy on November 22, 1963, changed the political situation. Kennedy's successor as president, Lyndon Johnson, made use of his experience in legislative politics, along with the bully pulpit he wielded as president, in support of the bill. In his first address to a joint session of Congress on November 27, 1963, Johnson told the legislators, "No memorial oration or eulogy could more eloquently honor President Kennedy's memory than the earliest possible passage of the civil rights bill for which he fought so long."[12]

Judiciary Committee chairman Celler filed a petition to discharge the bill from the Rules Committee; it required the support of a majority of House members to move the bill to the floor. Initially Celler had a difficult time acquiring the signatures necessary, because even many congressmen who supported the civil rights bill itself were cautious about violating normal House procedure with the discharge petition. By the time of the 1963 winter recess, 50 signatures were still needed.

The record of the roll call vote kept by the House Clerk on final passage of the bill.
After the return of Congress from its winter recess, however, it was apparent that public opinion in the North favored the bill and that the petition would acquire the necessary signatures. To avert the humiliation of a successful discharge petition, Chairman Smith relented and allowed the bill to pass through the Rules Committee.

Passage in the Senate
Martin Luther King, Jr. and Malcolm X at the United States Capitol on March 26, 1964. Both men had come to hear the Senate debate on the bill. This was the only time the two men ever met; their meeting lasted only one minute.[13]
Johnson, who wanted the bill passed as soon as possible, ensured that the bill would be quickly considered by the Senate. Normally, the bill would have been referred to the Senate Judiciary Committee, chaired by Senator James O. Eastland, Democrat from Mississippi. Given Eastland's firm opposition, it seemed impossible that the bill would reach the Senate floor. Senate Majority Leader Mike Mansfield took a novel approach to prevent the bill from being relegated to Judiciary Committee limbo. Having initially waived a second reading of the bill, which would have led to it being immediately referred to Judiciary, Mansfield gave the bill a second reading on February 26, 1964, and then proposed, in the absence of precedent for instances when a second reading did not immediately follow the first, that the bill bypass the Judiciary Committee and immediately be sent to the Senate floor for debate.

When the bill came before the full Senate for debate on March 30, 1964, the "Southern Bloc" of 18 southern Democratic Senators and one Republican Senator led by Richard Russell (D-GA) launched a filibuster to prevent its passage.[14] Said Russell: "We will resist to the bitter end any measure or any movement which would have a tendency to bring about social equality and intermingling and amalgamation of the races in our (Southern) states."[15]

The most fervent opposition to the bill came from Senator Strom Thurmond (D-SC): "This so-called Civil Rights Proposals, which the President has sent to Capitol Hill for enactment into law, are unconstitutional, unnecessary, unwise and extend beyond the realm of reason. This is the worst civil-rights package ever presented to the Congress and is reminiscent of the Reconstruction proposals and actions of the radical Republican Congress."[16]

After 54 days of filibuster, Senators Everett Dirksen (R-IL), Thomas Kuchel (R-CA), Hubert Humphrey (D-MN), and Mike Mansfield (D-MT) introduced a substitute bill that they hoped would attract enough Republican swing votes to end the filibuster. The compromise bill was weaker than the House version in regard to government power to regulate the conduct of private business, but it was not so weak as to cause the House to reconsider the legislation.[17]

On the morning of June 10, 1964, Senator Robert Byrd (D-W.Va.) completed a filibustering address that he had begun 14 hours and 13 minutes earlier opposing the legislation. Until then, the measure had occupied the Senate for 57 working days, including six Saturdays. A day earlier, Democratic Whip Hubert Humphrey of Minnesota, the bill's manager, concluded he had the 67 votes required at that time to end the debate and end the filibuster. With six wavering senators providing a four-vote victory margin, the final tally stood at 71 to 29. Never in history had the Senate been able to muster enough votes to cut off a filibuster on a civil rights bill. And only once in the 37 years since 1927 had it agreed to cloture for any measure.[18]


So, it proves that congress did work in 1964! All we have now is gridlock. The words cooperation and compromise are words of the past.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Sat 2 Aug, 2014 02:48 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Whatever. You're not dumping a hundred million Americans onto the rest of us, sorry...
Olivier5
 
  1  
Sat 2 Aug, 2014 03:00 pm
@revelette2,
Quote:
All Frank is saying is, from he has gathered in reading several posts of CI's is that CI thinks no matter who is elected to run the government, this country has no chance to get better than it is right now. Like there is nothing we can do to make it better so why bother to vote because no one can make it better. 

That's not ALL what Frank is saying. That's in fact what CI is saying. What Frank is saying is that, because ci thinks so, HE SHOULD LEAVE THE COUNTRY. This is what I have an issue with. He is also saying that whoever dislike the way the country is governed, HATES THE COUNTRY AS A WHOLE.

Do you agree with Frank on those two points, rev?
ehBeth
 
  3  
Sat 2 Aug, 2014 03:01 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
Canadians, any interest is a mass emigration from below the border?


Too many coming up from the US already. If I knew who to vote for to make it stop, I'd do it.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Sat 2 Aug, 2014 03:05 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Whatever. You're not dumping a hundred million Americans onto the rest of us, sorry...


I doubt most of them would move, Olivier.

My comment merely says they ought to consider it...that anyone with spine would.

But this is a fine place...every bit as good a place to live as anywhere else. I'm sure all the chronic complainers are well aware of that.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Sat 2 Aug, 2014 03:15 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:
Too many coming up from the US already. If I knew who to vote for to make it stop, I'd do it.

Is that documented somewhere? I know a few Americans who settled in Europe and Mexico because they can't stand the political climate in the US. But I haven't seen statistics about that.

Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Sat 2 Aug, 2014 03:15 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
All Frank is saying is, from he has gathered in reading several posts of CI's is that CI thinks no matter who is elected to run the government, this country has no chance to get better than it is right now. Like there is nothing we can do to make it better so why bother to vote because no one can make it better. 

That's not ALL what Frank is saying. That's in fact what CI is saying. What Frank is saying is that, because ci thinks so, HE SHOULD LEAVE THE COUNTRY. This is what I have an issue with. He is also saying that whoever dislike the way the country is governed, HATES THE COUNTRY AS A WHOLE.

Do you agree with Frank on those two points, rev?


Oh, I am sure there are people who despise this country and its government...and who think there is no hope for it...and who have decided to stop voting and just live their lives of comfort while pissing and moaning as much as possible...and bad-mouthing the country as often as they can...

...but who like the beaches and the mountains and the national parks and all that.

C'mon, Olivier...don't let your dislike of me cause you to argue like a fool.

Anyone who finds as much wrong with America as does ci...hates this country...the people in it...and its government.

If they want to find a country with better people and better government...they should be reminded that they are free to do so.

Hey...Edward Snowden found a better place...one with a much freer environment and greater respect for privacy...and one much less likely to spy on its citizens than the United States.

Russia!

I am sure ci could do the same.

Not sure why you are so upset with me at least mentioning that to him...suggesting that it is something he ought to consider so that he can live a more happy, content life than he can in the country he considers an abomination.

But you really ought to get over it.

Or not...depending on whether you want to keep entertaining me.
Wink
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sat 2 Aug, 2014 03:19 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Hey, Frankie boy, pissing and moaning is all part of the FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

You don't get it, do you? LOL In some countries, when the piss and moan, they either get thrown in jail, tortured, or killed. The US still has the FREEDOM OF SPEECH, but our government also intrudes into our personal telephone calls and emails.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 2 Aug, 2014 03:28 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Hey, Frankie boy...


Why do you demean yourself with that "Frankie boy" nonsense, ci? What possible satisfaction can anyone over the age of 4 get from that kind of thing? It amuses me to think you are so out-of-control you have to resort to that, but why do you do it?

Quote:

... pissing and moaning is all part of the FREEDOM OF SPEECH.


You are absolutely correct, ci...it is part of FREEDOM OF SPEECH. But so is hate speech (which I have seen you castigate)...and vulgarity...and unnecessary public profanity...and that kind of thing.

The fact that you are free to piss and moan...and say disgusting things about the country in which you live...and degrade it and slander it and bad-mouth it constantly...does not mean you have to do it.

Try growing up...and be thankful that you live here rather than somewhere where they truly are troubles.


Quote:
You don't get it, do you? LOL


Oh, I get it, ci. You don't. And it is time you finally do.


Quote:
In some countries, when the piss and moan, they either get thrown in jail, tortured, or killed.


Yes...but we don't do that here.


Quote:
The US still has the FREEDOM OF SPEECH, but our government also intrudes into our personal telephone calls and emails.


So??? You have to show hatred and loathing for it because of that?

Well...that also is your right.

But you really ought to consider leaving here...a place you consider disgusting...and finding some place where a fine person like yourself can live in conditions befitting someone of your stature.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
  1. Forums
  2. » Snowdon is a dummy
  3. » Page 444
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 5.4 seconds on 11/23/2024 at 08:23:40