42
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
edgarblythe
 
  0  
Fri 11 Jul, 2014 10:11 am
@RABEL222,
But why spy on Germany?
revelette2
 
  3  
Fri 11 Jul, 2014 10:25 am
@edgarblythe,
I know, it does you make you wonder, at least it does me.
Olivier5
 
  3  
Fri 11 Jul, 2014 10:57 am
@revelette2,
Industrial espionage has to be one reason, even though it's not something the NSA can admit. Another reason I've seen mentioned is that Mohammad Ata and some of his crew lived there for a while without being spotted by the national spooks.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Fri 11 Jul, 2014 11:18 am
There's a relevant article in Ask Amy about trust.
Quote:
Dear Amy, I have never had reason to be concerned about my husband's fidelity, but a single event has got me worried. Last week I sat next to him, grabbed his cellphone and punched in the password. He looked over, saw what I was doing, and literally batted the phone out of my hand. He then proceeded to admonish me for "snooping." When I questioned his reaction, he was adamant that he was protecting his privacy and that he was not hiding anything. I can't help but feel suspicious because of this uncharacteristic behavior. Worried Wife
DEAR WORRIED: Based on the evidence you present to justify your behavior (none), I think your husband has more reason to question your fidelity than you have to question his. After all, if you witnessed him grabbing your cellphone and punching in the security code, wouldn't you question his motives and actions? My point is that you have created the justification for snooping (your husband's "uncharacteristic" reaction) - by snooping. Going through someone else's cellphone is like opening someone else's mail. ....... Even people who have nothing to hide have a right to privacy. So, what is your real justification for doing this? You're going to have to come clean with your husband and simply ask him to reveal to you what you want to know. You have every right to expect him to be transparent, but you're going to have to with this like grown-ups.


Once you lose trust, what's next?
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Fri 11 Jul, 2014 12:04 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

But why spy on Germany?


Are you saying that history has shown the German people to be so trustworthy they should not be spied upon?
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Fri 11 Jul, 2014 12:04 pm
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:

I know, it does you make you wonder, at least it does me.


Same question, Revelette.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Fri 11 Jul, 2014 12:14 pm
@Olivier5,
Do you mean the USA government Atta or the real Atta?
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Fri 11 Jul, 2014 12:54 pm
@Olivier5,
Setting aside the first, the second actually makes sense. But I can see why it would be problematic and not good..
JTT
 
  0  
Fri 11 Jul, 2014 12:58 pm
@revelette2,
Quote:
the second actually makes sense.


It makes sense to one that is willing to swallow myriad USA lies, Rev. Surely that's not you.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Fri 11 Jul, 2014 01:24 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
Another reason I've seen mentioned is that Mohammad Ata and some of his crew lived there for a while without being spotted by the national spooks.
They were there indeed for 6 months in 2000 ... before they took the flight lessons. In the USA. For quite a long time.
(Certainly one can say that Ata wasn't spotted as a terrorist when he finished his architecture studies in Hamburg in the mid-1990's.)
RABEL222
 
  2  
Fri 11 Jul, 2014 05:23 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Politics as usual, but the average U S of A citizen knows that spying is and has been done by all countries and they all deny that they are the ones doing it. It is always someone else.
JTT
 
  0  
Fri 11 Jul, 2014 05:25 pm
@RABEL222,
The average USA citizen is a sheeple just like you, Rabel, with minds programmed by a relentless propaganda stream.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  1  
Fri 11 Jul, 2014 05:27 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Inability to understand English is sometime convenient. I mean you posted proof that Germany spies on other countries while you condem the U S for doing the same thing.

Just now, our interior minister said in a life interviews that from now on the counter-espionage on the USA would be done in the same way as it is done to e.g. Russia, China or North Korea.
Quote:
JTT
 
  0  
Fri 11 Jul, 2014 05:32 pm
@RABEL222,
Those quotes are slippery little devils, aren't they, Rabel?


Quote:
Inability to understand English is sometime convenient.


It often works for you!
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  2  
Fri 11 Jul, 2014 05:34 pm
@edgarblythe,
Maybe to try to keep track of the large Muslim contingent in Europe? Thus spying on private citizens to protect the new tower in N Y.
JTT
 
  0  
Fri 11 Jul, 2014 05:41 pm
@RABEL222,
You are a slimy piece of scum, Rabel. Y'all still haven't paid reparations for all the property destroyed by the war criminals christians of the USAFarce.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Fri 11 Jul, 2014 06:02 pm
@Frank Apisa,
You,
Quote:
Are you saying that history has shown the German people to be so trustworthy they should not be spied upon?


However, are you saying the US is trustworthy? Our country has a record of starting wars on lies, and killing tens of thousands of innocent people.

I don't trust the US on many fronts, and that includes starting wars.

Quote:
1. War of 1812 (Madison, 1812) -- Lies: In 1812, Congress declared war on England based primarily on their kidnapping (‘impressment’) of our sailors at sea. Truth: To drive England out of N. America, so the war started with our failed invasion of Canada at Detroit. DC "expansionists" took advantage and started incursions to acquire Spanish Florida, and Mexican Texana territories.

2. Mexican-American (Polk, 1845) -- Lies: Fight to defend our Texas border with Mexico. Truth: The disputes started when residents stole The Republic of Texas from Mexico. We invaded and took the northern half of Mexico, now our entire SW region of five states.

3. Civil (Lincoln, 1865) -- Lies: Fight to end slavery and preserve the union. Truth: The South got tired of economic abuse by the North and had a perfect right to secede. It was not a civil war and it was unconstitutional, illegal, and immoral for the North to start a war to stop them. The Northern states who had the votes to control Congress, wanted to retain the South as a source of cotton and a customer for their manufactured goods (hence the high tariffs on imports in southern ports). Slavery was ended later by the Emancipation Proclamation, but only in Southern states, because the Union wanted the slaves as soldiers. Lincoln was a tyrant beholden to the railroad and canal interests; he jailed journalists and draft resisters who opposed him. Yet, to this day he is revered as a great President who saved the Union.

4. Spanish-American (McKinley, 1898) -- Lies: Spain blew up the US battleship Maine in Cuba’s Havana harbor. Truth: Hearst publicized, and Teddy Roosevelt mobilized, to use the accidental explosion to take over Cuba by starting a war in April, 1898. We then invaded the Philippines in May and annexed Hawaii in July. A busy time for the beginning of Empire-USA!

5. WWI (Wilson, 1917) -- Lies: Join Europe to "Make the World Safe for Democracy." Truth: Wilson was convinced to join by US and European industrialists who wanted to sell munitions and guns to the allies, and get paid when they won.

6. WWII (FDR, 1941) -- Lies; Defend the US from unprovoked attacks by Japan. Truth: FDR poked Japan until he got his "incident." because he wanted to be in the war and prevent Germany from winning and emerge as a superpower (with 1. England and France under his control, and 2. Japan and Italy as buddies). FDR wanted the USA to be the only post-war superpower (with 1. Germany under our control, and 2. France and England as buddies)

7. Korean (Truman, 1950) -- Lies: Defend America. Truth: Truman and the Generals wanted a reason to have troops in the Far East area of our Empire.

8. Vietnam (Kennedy, Johnson, 1964) -- Lies: Johnson said Vietnam attacked our ships in the Gulf of Tonkin in August, 1964. Truth: The US didn’t want to lose the southeast Asia region, and its oil and sea lanes, to China. This "attack" was convenient. Kennedy initiated the first major increase in US troops (over 500).

9. Gulf War (G.H.W. Bush, 1991) -- Lies: To defend Kuwait from Iraq. Truth: Saddam was a threat to Israel, and we wanted his oil and land for bases.

10. Balkans (Clinton, 1999) -- Lies: Prevent Serb killing of Bosnians. Truth: Get the Chinese out of Eastern Europe (remember the "accidental" bombing of their embassy in Belgrade?) so they could not get control of the oil in the Caspian region and Eastward. Control land for bases such as our huge Camp Bondsteel in Kosovo, and for the proposed Trans-Balkan Oil pipeline from the Caspian Sea area to the Albanian port of Valona on the Adriatic Sea.

11. Afghan (G.W. Bush, 2001) -- Lies: The Taliban were hiding Osama. Truth: To build a gas/oil pipeline from Turkmenistan and other northern ‘xxstan’ countries to a warm water (all year) port in the Arabian Sea near Karachi (same reason the Russians were there), plus land for bases.

12. Iraq (G.W. Bush, 2003) -- Lies: Stop use of WMDs -- whoops, bring Democracy, or whatever. Truth: Oil, defense of Israel, land for permanent bases (we were kicked out of Saudi Arabia) to manage the greater Middle East, restore oil sales in USD (Saddam had changed to Euros).

13. Possible Iran War (Obama, 201?) -- Lies: They almost have an atom bomb; they are a threat to Israel; major killer of our troops in Iraq. Truth: Control their oil, defend Israel, and restore oil sales in USD only (they changed to add Euros and others). We created the regional conflict and shouldn’t be surprised that all neighbors (including our "friends" in Saudi Arabia) are helping Iraq. We exaggerate the threat to Israel, especially as Iran has allowed inspections and Israel has not.

If you approve of the current Bush-Obama wars, but are resting safely at home, you should join the Army’s Chicken Hawk Brigade. There is no restriction on age or sex, and you will get an exciting front-line assignment promptly. Then, you won’t feel badly about sending others to fight your wars for oil, religion, and Empire-USA.

Better yet, write, call, and vote against the NeoCon gang in Congress to stop their plans for war against Iran and others.

******************
David Redick is a Madison, WI businessman, author, and President of Forward-USA, which seeks ways to improve government so we have more peace, prosperity, and justice.

RABEL222
 
  2  
Fri 11 Jul, 2014 10:42 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Wouldent be more accurate to say we dont trust politicians, because the last few wars we have been involved in were political? Politicians have realized that one way to stoke the economy is through wars. And it makes the billionares happy.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Fri 11 Jul, 2014 11:31 pm
@RABEL222,
It might well be that I used the wrong term or counter-espionage means something here then elsewhere.

At least here in Germany, the "counterintelligence" agencies (federal as well as on state level) Federal (State) Office for the Protection of the Constitution aren't considered to do espionage but to avoid such.

In a broader sense, they spy of course on others. Like the criminalpolice does, too. My bad. Sorry.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sat 12 Jul, 2014 12:01 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:

But German officials believe that a domestic political audience already rocked by Edward Snowden's revelations of bulk data collection and surveillance of chancellor Merkel's mobile phone will not be satisfied by anything less than a public commitment from the Americans to curtail future espionage activity in Germany.

"Dialogue in private is fine, but there must be something in public; people are so outraged," said the German official.

Diplomats are playing down the significance of a second arrest of a German government worker on Wednesday, saying it is too soon to tell whether he was actually spying for the US, but are adamant that the arrest of an intelligence officer last week for allegedly selling documents to the CIA reveals a complete breakdown of trust between the two countries.

Anger is running so high in Berlin that several earlier overtures by the US have this week been rejected by Berlin, which instead asked the CIA's station chief to leave the country.

The Guardian has confirmed that CIA director John Brennan previously offered to come to Germany to discuss its concerns but has so far been rebuffed by officials in Berlin, who believe he must commit to something more substantive before they agree to meet.

And Bloomberg News reported on Friday that US ambassador John Emerson even offered to strike an intelligence-sharing agreement similar to the so-called "five eyes" deal between the US, UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand, but saw his offer spurned by Merkel.

German sources deny that a formal no-spying offer was made in this way, but say they are less interested anyway in such a reciprocal arrangement than when Merkel previously discussed joining the five-eyes scheme during her last trip to Washington. They claim this is partly because of earlier confusion over the proposal, and partly because domestic anti-surveillance laws prevent Germany from offering the same level of shared intelligence as English-speaking allies do.

Instead, the German government is seeking an "informal agreement" or "common understanding" over future US intelligence activity in the country, ideally one that does not commit Germany to carrying out yet more surveillance itself in return.

"We need to find something that satisfies the German public mood," said the senior German diplomat on Friday, who warned of growing anti-Americanism in the country that could overshadow trade talks and diplomatic talks over the Ukraine. "There are not many secrets to hide here; the Americans are our friends."
Source
 

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