42
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sun 6 Jul, 2014 02:11 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Anger? Another one of you bull **** without any evidence for it. Your conclusions are often WRONG. Give it up!


Calm down, ci. Blood pressure and all that! Wink
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sun 6 Jul, 2014 02:17 pm
From the NYT-report Germans Demand U.S. Response to Spy Allegation
Quote:

With mystery enveloping a German intelligence service employee accused of spying — reportedly for the United States — German officials and commentators on Sunday angrily demanded a response from Washington, warning that an already troubled relationship was at risk of deteriorating to a new low.
[...]
President Joachim Gauck, whose role is largely ceremonial but who increasingly speaks out on daily matters, told German television that if it turned out that the United States had been spying on Germany, “then that is really a gamble with friendship, with a close alliance.”

“Then we really have to say, Enough,” Mr. Gauck added.

Chancellor Angela Merkel, on a trip to China, kept silent on the matter, although reporters traveling with her cited unidentified people in her circle as saying she was “surprised” and “disappointed” at the suggestion that an American intelligence agency had recruited a German agent. Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier, traveling in Mongolia, was quoted in the German news media as saying that “if the reports are true, then we are not talking about something minor.”

The United States “should fully explain the matter as soon as possible,” Mr. Steinmeier added.

Perhaps the most striking sign of the strained relationship was Germany’s decision to summon the American ambassador, John B. Emerson, to the Foreign Ministry on the Fourth of July, just before the American Embassy’s holiday party for hundreds of guests. The newsmagazine Der Spiegel reported that the ambassador had smiled and greeted guests, but that the tension was noticeable: “It was as it has so often been recently when official America meets official Germany. The facade was perfect, but behind it there was little accord.”

An American whom Germans did hear from during the weekend was Hillary Rodham Clinton, in Berlin to promote the German-language edition of her recent book, “Hard Choices,” about her years as secretary of state. While carefully skirting judgment on the new espionage scandal, she emphasized at a Saturday reception at the ambassador’s residence that the relationship between the United States and Germany was valued, and should not be “sidelined, downgraded or destroyed.”

At an appearance on Sunday, she said, “Let’s find out what the facts are,” noting that relations “should not be put at risk.”

... ... ...
BillRM
 
  2  
Mon 7 Jul, 2014 07:37 am
As an American I am sad that my nation once the beacon of freedom for the rest of the world is now the one nation to be avoided in setting up new internet security companies.

Both the new Truecrypt group and the start up encrypted email service Proton mail had set up shop in Switzerland to be beyond the reach of the US government secret spying orders.

Footnote Paypal shut off Proton Mail access to their funds for a brief time without warning and when ask why Pay Pal in turn then asked them if they had government permission to offer an encrypted email service!!!!!!!!

The question that came to the Proton Mail people and my mind for that matter, is what government would they need permission from?

In any case good old Paypal re-open their account within 24 hours.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Mon 7 Jul, 2014 08:24 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Leading conservative (sic!) lawmakers of the CDU/CSU are now demanding to declare US-agent, who are accredited diplomats, personae non gratae, which is the most serious form of censure which one country can apply to foreign diplomats ...
JTT
 
  -1  
Mon 7 Jul, 2014 08:47 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
As an American I am sad that my nation once the beacon of freedom for the rest of the world is now the one nation to be avoided in setting up new internet security companies.


You are a terrible fool if you believe that nonsense, Bill. The USA was never the beacon of freedom. The USA has only been a vicious oppressor. It started with genocide against Native Americans and proceeded with the oppression of Central and South American nations. It extended to Hawaii, another USA genocide, then the Philippines, and on and on. The idea that the USA is a beacon of freedom is fatuous in the extreme.

Where is Bear when there are these silly notions to be knocked down?

0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Mon 7 Jul, 2014 11:15 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Leading conservative (sic!) lawmakers of the CDU/CSU are now demanding to declare US-agent, who are accredited diplomats, personae non gratae, which is the most serious form of censure which one country can apply to foreign diplomats ...


No problem. Break off diplomatic relations entirely if you think that is the proper reaction.

I'm confident cooler, more mature heads will prevail...but if it happened, who would be hurt?
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Mon 7 Jul, 2014 11:31 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank wrote,
Quote:
No problem. Break off diplomatic relations entirely if you think that is the proper reaction.


Your extreme views goes beyond the pale.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Mon 7 Jul, 2014 11:37 am
@Walter Hinteler,
PNG is done routinely by sovereign nations. Sending the US ambassador packing would send a message, especially since Obama rewards his campaign contributors with such jobs...
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Mon 7 Jul, 2014 12:02 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Frank wrote,
Quote:
No problem. Break off diplomatic relations entirely if you think that is the proper reaction.


Your extreme views goes beyond the pale.


There are no extreme views expressed here. The hypothetical was necessary to deal with what was cited.It shows the absurdity of that line of thinking.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Mon 7 Jul, 2014 12:04 pm
@Frank Apisa,
What you fail to see is that your hypothetical was not necessary; not even realistic.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Mon 7 Jul, 2014 12:13 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Frank wrote,
Quote:
No problem. Break off diplomatic relations entirely if you think that is the proper reaction.


Your extreme views goes beyond the pale.
You'e correct, c.i. . Neither did someone suggest such nor did I write so. (And I don't think that the quoted poster knows at all what I think.)
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Mon 7 Jul, 2014 12:29 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

What you fail to see is that your hypothetical was not necessary; not even realistic.


No, ci...what you fail to see is that is was both realistic (a logical extension of what Walter posted)...and really necessary to gain insights into where a logical extension of that kind of think will lead.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Mon 7 Jul, 2014 12:39 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:

Frank wrote,
Quote:
No problem. Break off diplomatic relations entirely if you think that is the proper reaction.


Your extreme views goes beyond the pale.
You'e correct, c.i. . Neither did someone suggest such nor did I write so. (And I don't think that the quoted poster knows at all what I think.)


ci is far from correct here, Walter.

If the relationship is already in trouble...and deteriorating...

...what else would be the logical extension of that kind of thinking?

Your citation talks about declaring certain diplomats as "personae non gratae" (sic)...

...which is described as the most serious form of censure which one country can apply to foreign diplomats ...

...what else would be the logical extension of that kind of thinking.

And using something as hackneyed as "the quoted poster" is childish, Walter.


0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 7 Jul, 2014 12:41 pm
Quote:
http://i1334.photobucket.com/albums/w641/Walter_Hinteler/a_zpsc28ead2d.jpg
What is remarkable is that Germans almost equally approved of cooperating with Russia and the United States. The team had expected Germans to clearly favor cooperation with the transatlantic partner. What we see here, Paulsen argues, is "latent anti-Americanism on the one hand and the effect of the negative US image after the Iraq War and the NSA spy scandal on the other."
Source: Germans voice US frustrations in policy poll
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Mon 7 Jul, 2014 12:44 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Quote:
http://i1334.photobucket.com/albums/w641/Walter_Hinteler/a_zpsc28ead2d.jpg
What is remarkable is that Germans almost equally approved of cooperating with Russia and the United States. The team had expected Germans to clearly favor cooperation with the transatlantic partner. What we see here, Paulsen argues, is "latent anti-Americanism on the one hand and the effect of the negative US image after the Iraq War and the NSA spy scandal on the other."
Source: Germans voice US frustrations in policy poll


Sure...you can count on France and Poland to provide all the military cover that helps protect you guys.

No problem.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Mon 7 Jul, 2014 12:47 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
This anti American feeling in Germany has been building for decades. Remember back mid 90's when it was said that the solution was to move US forces out of the major cities, that then everything would calm down??

That did not work.
JTT
 
  0  
Mon 7 Jul, 2014 12:52 pm
@hawkeye10,
It's not anti-American (though that's the convenient go to meme for USians) so much as it is anti what America does. No one likes being associated with evil.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Mon 7 Jul, 2014 01:25 pm
Actually, I have to agree with JTT quite a bit here.

The "big cities" don't like a lot that/when the US-forces leave because it costs quite a bit to re-develop the vast areas occupied. (We had had the same problems here, when the Canadians, Belgians, and British left.)

While the former "anti-Americanism" (Vietnam, NIKE, Pershing etc) was something more like a 'student revolt', today it's especially the more older and more conservative generation which really is upset about the actions.
(And because they/we had had some hope; changes would come with Obama. But hope dies last.)
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Mon 7 Jul, 2014 01:42 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
White House spokesman Josh Earnest said Washington was aware of the report that a German double agent had spied for the US, but said he could not comment on intelligence matters.

"We are committed to making sure that we resolve this issue with the Germans appropriately," Earnest said.
"This is an intelligence matter," Earnest said. "It's a matter that is under investigation by the German law enforcement authorities, so I'm not in a position to comment on it from here."

Source: US promises to resolve double agent spy tensions with Germany
Olivier5
 
  2  
Mon 7 Jul, 2014 01:45 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
You still trust their promises?
 

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