39
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jul, 2013 05:54 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Precisely how I figured you would respond, Frank.

I have to let you know that I am shocked by this chickenshit behavior from the guy who promised up and down, forward and back, that he would always be there to address the issues.


Cool Drunk Drunk
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Wed 3 Jul, 2013 06:01 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Sorry, Frank I missed your response to.

Why is it that you show such respect for known liars, war criminals, terrorists, felons but you malign those who tell you the truth?

Your signature line,

To acknowledge what you do not know –is a display of strength. To pretend you know what you truly don’'t –is a display of weakness.

screams hypocrisy with your every "post".


JTT
 
  2  
Reply Wed 3 Jul, 2013 06:13 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
If all your security is illusion, what harm has the NSA done to you? What did you really give up? Please be succinct.


Evidently, you haven't read any of Engineer's responses to you, CI, or, and this is entirely within the realm of possibility, you read all the words but the meaning failed you completely because you still cling to the outrageous notion that the US has been a force for good in the world.

Or, you've simply decided to throw your lot in with all the war criminals and terrorists.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Wed 3 Jul, 2013 06:20 pm
@Frank Apisa,
"To oppose the policies of a government does not mean you are against the country or the people that the government supposedly represents. Such opposition should be called what it really is: democracy, or democratic dissent, or having a critical perspective about what your leaders are doing. Either we have the right to democratic dissent and criticism of these policies or we all lie down and let the leader, the Fuhrer, do what is best, while we follow uncritically, and obey whatever he commands. That's just what the Germans did with Hitler, and look where it got them."

Michael Parenti

What caused the people of the land of the brave and the home of the free to turn into a bunch of craven wussies?
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  4  
Reply Wed 3 Jul, 2013 06:27 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

If all your security is illusion, what harm has the NSA done to you? What did you really give up? Please be succinct.

If the NSA has my browser history, then they know every cat picture I've ever seen, every post I've ever made, every Facebook picture I've ever looked at. They know about my mother's medical conditions because I was searching around the Internet looking for information and a medical power of attorney. They can twist that any way they want and I have no defense or even know that it is being done. So before you say the government will never do that, please read this article about the postal version of the NSA electronic spying program.
Quote:
For mail cover requests, law enforcement agencies simply submit a letter to the Postal Service, which can grant or deny a request without judicial review. Law enforcement officials say the Postal Service rarely denies a request. In other government surveillance programs, such as wiretaps, a federal judge must sign off on the requests.

...

Law enforcement officials need warrants to open the mail, although President George W. Bush asserted in a signing statement in 2007 that the federal government had the authority to open mail without warrants in emergencies or foreign intelligence cases.

Court challenges to mail covers have generally failed because judges have ruled that there is no reasonable expectation of privacy for information contained on the outside of a letter. Officials in both the George W. Bush and Obama administrations, in fact, have used the mail-cover court rulings to justify the N.S.A.’s surveillance programs, saying the electronic monitoring amounts to the same thing as a mail cover. Congress briefly conducted hearings on mail cover programs in 1976, but has not revisited the issue.

The program has led to sporadic reports of abuse. In May 2012, Mary Rose Wilcox, a Maricopa County supervisor, was awarded nearly $1 million by a federal judge after winning a lawsuit against Sheriff Joe Arpaio, known for his immigration raids in Arizona, who, among other things, obtained mail covers from the Postal Service to track her mail. The judge called the investigation into Ms. Wilcox politically motivated because she had been a frequent critic of Mr. Arpaio, objecting to what she considered the targeting of Hispanics in his immigration sweeps.

Wow, a government official attempted to use government data to get dirt on a political opponent. Who would have thought it? Good thing we don't let contractors have access to all that data. No telling what the abuses would be then. In the end though it doesn't matter if I am harmed or not. I choose not the give up my constitutional rights. I would hope that every American would rally to my defense even if they chose for themselves to give up their rights. I choose to maintain mine and that should be sufficient.
engineer
 
  3  
Reply Wed 3 Jul, 2013 06:30 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

but he has acknowledged he broke his vows and the laws of the United States.

And the NSA has admitted to Congress that they broke the law as proven by Snowden. Isn't coming forward with evidence of wrong-doing (and remember here that he NSA has conceded that they were lying since Snowden's data caught them red-handed) the definition of a whistle-blower?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jul, 2013 06:39 pm
@engineer,
How did you arrive at "medical power of attorney?" That's a straw man, and you know it~!

You say "they can twist it any way," but you don't have any evidence that such a thing has happened to anyone's email or telephone message. You're wearing your FEAR very well; all dreamed up in your own brain.

As for "dirt on any political opponent," we don't need any underground government searching through all that communication that happens every day. They all do it in open, and it's immediately posted on the media.

Or, haven't you noticed?

The GOP cries "fire" with almost everything, just to learn that they're full of ****!

First prove "abuse of their power." I haven't seen anything coming close to that definition with private information gathered by our government. If you have evidence, please share it with us.

They've been gathering this information since 2007. Where's the beef?
Ceili
 
  6  
Reply Wed 3 Jul, 2013 06:47 pm
I'm totally amazed at the cavalier Americans have towards freedom. You think you have it. You don't.
I live in a country where privacy laws are much stricter. And I'm pissed because my sheeplike government has followed in the steps of the US. I don't know what the laws are in regards to mail or phones down south, but up here, wiretapping and mail tampering are crimes. A federal crime. Serious time.
Why is my internet usage not given the same respect?
I'm pissed that your government is recording everything about me too. I understand that when I go online to public sites, I'm opening myself up to many infringements, but holy ****. I don't live in your freedom filled country. **** off. Get it. It's my life, not a freaking documentary. I didn't sign up to be monitored by American pinheads. Maybe you're ok with that, but most people are perturbed by the idea that anything. A.N.Y.T.H.I.N.G you done or said or been is stored by the government. Forget your right to remain silent, anything you've done online can now be found at the touch of the button. I'm so glad sheeple are good with that.
Here take the koolaid.
If you visit an Al Jeezera or High Times are you suddenly deemed a suspicious character? Or if you receive a wrong number cell call, could you find myself on a terrorist list? Lord knows, your police forces have difficulty sometime finding an address.
And why the hatred for Snowdon? This is about you, as much as it's about him. He may have betrayed the government, but he's hardly betrayed you, the people. Or does this behavior bug you because you know you wouldn't have the balls to do what he did.
Jesus. Contracts, Signed agreements? People break contracts all the time. Americans love to sue. You don't sign a contract with the US government in blood. Or do you?
Spying on your enemies is one thing, but your allies, your friends and family and you...
You should be pissed about that. But you're not.
You live in an insular, fearful country and it's only going to get worse. 'Cause now, nobody trusts you.
You should be pissed, but you're not.
??????????
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Wed 3 Jul, 2013 06:51 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I posted a link where a woman sued and won almost a million dollars because a sheriff abused the government mail monitoring program to look at her mail. How many examples do you expect me to have when the existence of the program has been cloaked in secrecy? As the to medical power of attorney, that is something I looked up online as well as a lot of other information on mental illness. I'd just as well the government not concern itself with my family's health without my consent. In the end though, I don't have to prove any harm in order to assert my rights. I can open the constitution and tell the government no. Do you believe I have that right or don't I? Does the Bill of Rights apply all the time or just when convenient? Does the NSA have the right to lie to Congress when directly asked about the electronic surveillance program? If the NSA is breaking the law by lying to Congress, can a citizen with proof of the crime come forward?

While we're answering questions for each other, if an NSA agent knocked on your door and said "Hello sir. I would like all your Internet traffic and information on all of your calls to promote national security. Please turn it over." Would you be ok with that? Everyone reading along, please answer as well. My first thought was that people would be freaked out and slam the door in his face, but I'm coming to see that that is not universally true. I'm interested in how people here would respond to that knock on the door.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jul, 2013 07:25 pm
@engineer,
USPS mail abuse is another program that has harsher government regulations than the telephone or the internet. When you use any public wifi hotspot, you're open to others ability to see what you post.
You didn't know that?

From CBS.
Quote:
By CBSNEWS / CBS/ July 8, 2010, 12:53 PM
Dangers of Free Public Wifi

7 Comments
/22 Shares/7 Tweets/Stumble/EmailMore +
Free wifi -- it's everywhere, from the coffee shop to the airport. It's convenient, but you may be putting your personal information at risk.

Experts warn that free Internet connections could lead to identity theft, "Early Show" Consumer Correspondent Susan Koeppen points out.

She notes that nine million people fall victim to identity theft every year. And now, with thousands of wifi hot spots across the country, thieves are finding a new and easy way to steal your information.

Ceili
 
  2  
Reply Wed 3 Jul, 2013 07:31 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Yes, we all know that. Difference is, we're not ok with it.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jul, 2013 07:45 pm
@engineer,
They can knock on your door if they have proof of crime being perpetrated through your internet connections.

That's what they're supposed to do if you're breaking any laws of fraud or any other unlawful activity.

Yes, I'll be okay with that! But they'd better be damn sure I broke the law.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jul, 2013 08:27 pm
@Ceili,
I agree. I don't understand why more Americans are not really really angry about this. I think Snowden is close to being a hero for putting this information about what the American government is up to out there. It's not far from the type of spying on their own citizens done in Eastern Europe during the Cold War.

Americans should be incensed about what their government is doing.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jul, 2013 08:28 pm
@engineer,
engineer wrote:
"Hello sir. I would like all your Internet traffic and information on all of your calls to promote national security. Please turn it over." Would you be ok with that?


totally not ok with it
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jul, 2013 08:34 pm
@ehBeth,
They've already tried that with some social network companies, and they all said 'NO.'

As a social network company, they have some responsibility to keep their information confidential - as a good business policy, and to keep their customer's happy.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 3 Jul, 2013 08:35 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

I agree. I don't understand why more Americans are not really really angry about this. I think Snowden is close to being a hero for putting this information about what the American government is up to out there. It's not far from the type of spying on their own citizens done in Eastern Europe during the Cold War.

Americans should be incensed about what their government is doing.

careful now.....you dont want to be caught saying that my police state rants over the last few years have a viable argument. .....
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Wed 3 Jul, 2013 08:36 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

They can knock on your door if they have proof of crime being perpetrated through your internet connections.

That's what they're supposed to do if you're breaking any laws of fraud or any other unlawful activity.

Yes, I'll be okay with that! But they'd better be damn sure I broke the law.


the point is that is not what NSA is doing - it is digging into your business before there is any suggestion you've done anything wrong
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jul, 2013 08:39 pm
@ehBeth,
That may be true, but that's been going on since 2007, and I'm not aware of anything untoward that resulted from their witch hunt.

Do you?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jul, 2013 08:42 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
NSA chief: Surveillance stopped 50 terrorist ‘events’
BY MCT DIRECT – POSTED ON JUNE 19, 2013
POSTED IN: TOP STORIES

NSA chief: Surveillance stopped 50 terrorist ‘events’
By William Douglas and Ali Watkins

McClatchy Washington Bureau

WASHINGTON — The director of the National Security Agency testified Tuesday that the government’s massive surveillance program helped thwart more than 50 terrorist “events” worldwide since Sept. 11, 2001, including a planned bombing of the New York Stock Exchange.

Army Gen. Keith Alexander, the NSA’s director, made the revelation during a rare open session of the House of Representatives’ Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, called by panel members to defend and explain government cyber-snooping they support and which they contend has been misunderstood since it was revealed by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden.

Alexander, along with representatives of the FBI, the Office of National Intelligence and the Justice Department, tried to quell public angst over the size and scope of the government’s telephone and Internet surveillance activities following reports in Britain’s Guardian newspaper and The Washington Post based on Snowden’s leaks.

“This is not a program that’s off the books, that’s been hidden away,” Deputy Attorney General James Cole told lawmakers. “It’s been overseen by three branches of our government: the legislature, the judiciary and the executive branch.”


What more do you want from our government? If you can't trust our government on this issue, who can you trust?
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Jul, 2013 08:44 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

That may be true, but that's been going on since 2007, and I'm not aware of anything untoward that resulted from their witch hunt.

Do you?

this information is being warehoused forever, it is the equivalent of being fine with warehouses of nuclear weapons being stored in Pakistan because we have not heard yet that the Taliban and their terrorist buddies have gotten some. that they will eventually is almost a certainty.
 

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