42
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 28 May, 2014 11:33 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
So I am not sure of your point.
And I can't follow your argumentation. But that might be reasoned in the different legal systems and the different understanding of laws which you and I have.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 28 May, 2014 12:12 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
So I am not sure of your point.
And I can't follow your argumentation. But that might be reasoned in the different legal systems and the different understanding of laws which you and I have.


This has almost nothing to do with any differences between laws in the US and Germany, Walter.

My point is that just about all lawyers who are interviewed about their clients... say things that put their client and the client's actions in the most favorable light possible.

You offered a transcript of an interview with Snowden’s lawyer. The lawyer said things that put Snowden and Snowden’s actions in the most favorable light possible…and offered possible “solutions” to the situation which suggested making a deal to get his client as favorable an outcome as he could.

All of that is exactly what any competent lawyer would do.

When I called that to your attention, you listed some credentials of Snowden’s lawyer...and said the lawyers for the others did not have those credentials.

I respectfully suggest that the credentials do not impact on what is being discussed here whatever. Wolfgang Kaleck, no matter what he is or was, was doing what any competent lawyer would do for his client; namely, putting his client in the best possible light.

OJ Simpson’s lawyers did it; George Zimmerman’s lawyers did it; Rudolf Hess’s lawyers did it; as did the lawyers for Al Capone, John Gotti, Bernie Madoff (you can fill in the rest).

Unless your point is that lawyers tend to defend their clients, I still do not understand your point.



0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Wed 28 May, 2014 01:21 pm
Quote:
Responding to US secretary of state's comments, Snowden adviser Ben Wizner says 'negotiated settlement' would be necessary

Snowden unlikely to 'man up' in face of Espionage Act, legal adviser says
Quote:
[...]
Responding to Kerry’s comments on Wednesday, Ben Wizner, a lawyer with the American Civil Liberties Union and a legal adviser to Snowden, said the whistleblower hoped to return to the United States one day, but that he could not do so under the current Espionage Act charges, which make it impossible for him to argue that his disclosures had served the common good.

“The laws under which Snowden is charged don’t distinguish between sharing information with the press in the public interest, and selling secrets to a foreign enemy,” Wizner said.

“The laws would not provide him any opportunity to say that the information never should have been withheld from the public in the first place. And the fact that the disclosures have led to the highest journalism rewards, have led to historic reforms in the US and around the world – all of that would be irrelevant in a prosecution under the espionage laws in the United States.”

Snowden also could face an untold number of additional charges if he returned to the United States. “He could be charged for each of the documents that has been published,” Wizner said. “The exposure that he faces is virtually unlimited under this.”
[...]
Michael German, a fellow at the New York-based Brennan Center for Justice, said that the administration of president Barack Obama had used the Espionage Act inconsistently, prosecuting some whistleblowers but leaving others alone.

“I think of lot commenters have pointed out that the Obama administration has charged more people who leak information of public concern to the press as spies under the Espionage Act than all previous administrations combined,” German said. “But what that doesn’t capture is how aggressively the Obama administration has gone after people who leak information to the press – exclusively when that information is critical of government policy.”

German said the “pre-trial abuse that was inflicted on Chelsea Manning”, stood out as an example of an aggressive application of the law. Manning was convicted last year of violating the Espionage Act and other charges and sentenced to 35 years in prison. Before her trial, Manning was held for nine months in solitary confinement under conditions later deemed “excessive” by a military judge.

Wizner said Snowden was cognizant of the Manning example.

“He isn’t blind,” Wizner said. “Snowden saw what happened to other people who faced prosecution under the Espionage Act, and he saw the state of the law, which would not have allowed him to either to challenge the government’s improper withholding of this information in the first place, or to hold up the enormous public value of these disclosures. All that would have been irrelevant.”
... ... ...
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 28 May, 2014 01:40 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
The second part
Quote:
Politicians and lawyers are too slow to protect us, so for now it's up to us to find technological solutions to end the mass espionage Edward Snowden revealed

Privacy under attack, part II: the solution is in the hands of the people
Quote:
[...]
We are not the only people in the world to have exigent political responsibilities. The government of the UK must cease to vitiate the civil liberties of its people, it must cease to use its territory and its transport facilities as an auxiliary to American military misbehaviour. And it must cease to deny freedom of the press. It must stop pressuring publishers who seek to inform the world about threats to democracy, while it goes relatively easy on publishers who spy on the families of murdered girls.

The chancellor of Germany must stop talking about her mobile phone and start talking about whether it is OK to deliver all the telephone calls and text messages in Germany to the US. Governments that operate under constitutions protecting freedom of expression have to inquire, urgently, whether that freedom exists when everything is spied on, monitored, listened to.

In addition to politics, we do have lawyering to do. Defending the rule of law is always lawyers' work. In some places those lawyers will need to be extremely courageous; everywhere they will need to be well trained; everywhere they will need our support and our concern. But it is also clear that subjecting government listening to the rule of law is not the only lawyers' work involved.
[...]
Snowden has nobly advanced our effort to save democracy. In doing so he stood on the shoulders of others. The honour will be his and theirs, but the responsibility is ours.

It is for us to finish the work that they have begun.

We must see to it that their sacrifices have meaning. That this nation, and all the nations, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 28 May, 2014 01:43 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
You posted,
Quote:
Snowden unlikely to 'man up' in face of Espionage Act, legal adviser says
.

That's what I posted several pages ago. The crime of espionage can result in execution.
BillRM
 
  1  
Wed 28 May, 2014 01:47 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
The crime of espionage can result in execution.


So did the crimes that George Washington committed against the British empire for that matter.

Maybe we will have a Snowden national holiday in the future.

But the living death of being locked up in a small cell for 23 out of 24 hours a day for decades seems far worst then execution.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 28 May, 2014 01:53 pm
@BillRM,
Your ability to determine other people's choice on how to live is an amazing skill.
Where did you learn that? LOL
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  1  
Wed 28 May, 2014 03:26 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Dident Snowdon just admit to being a spy.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 28 May, 2014 03:35 pm
@RABEL222,
"Trained as a spy" by the US government.

What's your point?
revelette2
 
  2  
Thu 29 May, 2014 06:32 am
@BillRM,
If Snowden became the leader of a country which won their independence from the US, then yes, maybe someday, that country will have a holiday named after him. Purely in the context of your analogy, in the US, it is more accurate to look upon him as Benedict Arnold.

(Getting ready to barricade myself behind a shield in preparation of the coming missiles being thrown my way....) got things to do today luckily.
BillRM
 
  1  
Thu 29 May, 2014 06:48 am
@revelette2,
Quote:
US, it is more accurate to look upon him as Benedict Arnold.


Mr. Arnold ended up living a long and fruitful life in exile.
BillRM
 
  1  
Thu 29 May, 2014 06:54 am
News alert it look as if someone had just force the Truecrypt people to take down their website and to stop supporting the software.
BillRM
 
  1  
Thu 29 May, 2014 07:30 am
@BillRM,
Here is what people had just found on the truecrypt website today.

Highly interesting given that the open source program had just pass the first phase of a public audit of the software and was looking like it would pass the complete audit.

The conclusion that many had reach at this early phase is that someone had lean on the truecrypt people [as in NSA] to shut the project down.


Quote:
WARNING: Using TrueCrypt is not secure as it may contain unfixed security issues

This page exists only to help migrate existing data encrypted by TrueCrypt.

The development of TrueCrypt was ended in 5/2014 after Microsoft terminated support of Windows XP. Windows 8/7/Vista and later offer integrated support for encrypted disks and virtual disk images. Such integrated support is also available on other platforms (click here for more information). You should migrate any data encrypted by TrueCrypt to encrypted disks or virtual disk images supported on your platform.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Thu 29 May, 2014 08:36 am
@BillRM,
Ok, I guess, Snowden can enjoy the same in Russia.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  6  
Thu 29 May, 2014 10:39 am
John Kerry has told Edward Snowden to "man up" and face justice in the US, that, "a patriot would not run away." What with the regime's rigged political system which saw the judicial branch give virtual carte blanche to the executive branch to violate US citizens' constitutional rights, and the legislative branch nodding in agreement, Kerry's admonition is a risible farce. One thing is a patriot; another thing is a stooge for the regime. Snowden may not be a patriot to some, but he certainly is not the latter.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 29 May, 2014 10:51 am
@InfraBlue,
People like Kerry who is a yes man to our government crimes can't be a spokesman for anyone. Any one charged with espionage can be executed, and he wants Snowden to be "a man." What a f.....g farce!
Doesn't Kerry know he's part of the problem? Privacy is protected by our Constitution. No government agent should be able to break that law! Without Snowden, we would never know the crimes against our Constitution by our government.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  0  
Thu 29 May, 2014 04:46 pm
@cicerone imposter,
That one trained as a spy, working for the government is a spy. But who does he spy for? He lives in Russia now.
RABEL222
 
  1  
Thu 29 May, 2014 04:49 pm
@BillRM,
As I remember my history even the English dident have any respect for nor did they trust him. After all once turned for money he could have been turned again.
BillRM
 
  2  
Thu 29 May, 2014 04:54 pm
@RABEL222,
Quote:
But who does he spy for? He lives in Russia now.


Spies do not break cover when he could had secretly been selling materials for decades for millions of dollars to foreign nations not sitting in Russia.

He is not a spy for any foreign power and if he is a spy he is a spy for all of us not only the US population but the world population instead.

0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Thu 29 May, 2014 04:57 pm
@RABEL222,
Quote:
As I remember my history even the English dident have any respect for nor did they trust him


You do remember perhaps from your history that the Brits gave him commands of large military forces?

Somehow I question that they would do so for someone they did not trust.
 

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