Snowdon is a dummy

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

You should join those negotiations.

I should simply share my opinion on the issue with my colleagues in A2K, Walter.

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

Seems to me a fair trial on the charges should be more than enough.

Anything else offered would, in my opinion, be too much.

Hear! Hear!

1 Reply

@Moment-in-Time,

How can Snowden get a fair trial when the US government already charged him with espionage?

From Wiki.

Quote:

Capital punishment by the United States federal government
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The United States federal government (in comparison to the separate states) applies the death penalty for certain crimes: treason, espionage, federal murder, large-scale drug trafficking, and attempting to kill a witness, juror, or court officer in certain cases. Military law allows execution of soldiers for several crimes. Executions by the federal government have been rare compared to those by state governments. Twenty-six federal (including military) executions have been carried out since 1950. Three of those (none of them military) have occurred in the modern post-Gregg era. This list only includes those executed under federal jurisdiction. The Federal Bureau of Prisons manages the housing and execution of federal death row prisoners. As of January 19, 2014, fifty-nine people are on the federal death row for men at the Federal Correctional Complex in Terre Haute, Indiana; while the two women on the federal death row are at Federal Medical Center, Carswell in Fort Worth, Texas.[1]

3 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

Could Edward Snowden get a fair trial in the U.S.?
DECEMBER 29, 2013, 10:43 AM|NSA whistleblower Thomas Drake and Edward Snowden’s legal advisor Jesselyn Radack explain why they believe the NSA leaker wouldn’t get a fair hearing in the United States.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

How can Snowden get a fair trial when the US government already charged him with espionage?

From Wiki.

Quote:
Capital punishment by the United States federal government
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The United States federal government (in comparison to the separate states) applies the death penalty for certain crimes: treason, espionage, federal murder, large-scale drug trafficking, and attempting to kill a witness, juror, or court officer in certain cases. Military law allows execution of soldiers for several crimes. Executions by the federal government have been rare compared to those by state governments. Twenty-six federal (including military) executions have been carried out since 1950. Three of those (none of them military) have occurred in the modern post-Gregg era. This list only includes those executed under federal jurisdiction. The Federal Bureau of Prisons manages the housing and execution of federal death row prisoners. As of January 19, 2014, fifty-nine people are on the federal death row for men at the Federal Correctional Complex in Terre Haute, Indiana; while the two women on the federal death row are at Federal Medical Center, Carswell in Fort Worth, Texas.[1]

ci...are you absolutely certain that Snowden has been charged with espionage?

He has been charged with specifics under the Espionage Act...but "with espionage?"

0 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Quote:
Could Edward Snowden get a fair trial in the U.S.?
DECEMBER 29, 2013, 10:43 AM|NSA whistleblower Thomas Drake and Edward Snowden’s legal advisor Jesselyn Radack explain why they believe the NSA leaker wouldn’t get a fair hearing in the United States.

So...they think Snowen cannot get a fair "hearing."

I think they are wrong.

I know he has been charged with stealing classified documents...and giving them to people unauthorized to have possession of them.

I am almost certain he can get a fair trial on those charges.

I suspect the last thing in the world his legal advisers want...is a fair hearing on the charges.

0 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

How can Snowden get a fair trial when the US government already charged him with espionage?

Snowden broke US laws and is charged with espionage. He will be given a trial. That is fair in my opinion..... You really would not want to know my personal feelings regarding Snowden, but then again, I'm not a member of the jury that will try Snowden.

3 Replies

@Moment-in-Time,

Moment-in-Time wrote:

Quote:

How can Snowden get a fair trial when the US government already charged him with espionage?

Snowden broke US laws and is charged with espionage. He will be given a trial. That is fair in my opinion..... You really would not want to know my personal feelings regarding Snowden, but then again, I'm not a member of the jury that will try Snowden.

Same question I asked ci, MiT. Are you sure Snowden has been charged with espionage?

I don't think that is one of the charges...and if it is, I think it should be dropped immediately.

1 Reply

@Moment-in-Time,

Oh, so you also approve of Obama's drone killing of American citizens that also killed innocent people? No trial, no charge, just death by fiat.

From Huff Post.

Quote:

On the same day Clapper submitted his letter, at least three innocent people were killed and two others injured by drones in Yemen. The three day laborers killed in Yemen were simply driving down the same road as the suspected militants who were targeted. According to Salem al-Kashm, one of the survivors of the attack, "Our vehicle was 15 meters from the attacked pickup, and the shrapnel from the strike poured on our car. Minutes after the first attack a second attack took place killing three of my friends in process."

1 Reply

@Moment-in-Time,

Oh, Ci, I don't believe he would ever get the death penalty. There are too many Americans who believe the way you do that Edward Snowden, the Betrayer of American classified documents, is a hero. Plus, in a way he did a service letting others know that NSA was "spying" on them. If terrorists can be stopped by using this method, then I say to NSA, go right ahead. There is no such thing as perfect freedom. We know the world we live in and it's not a perfect universe.

1 Reply

@Moment-in-Time,

You're only guessing what will happen to Snowden.
Do you think most Americans approve of drones? NO! It's still done - in secret.

2 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

I don't trust anyone who plays god, judge, and executioner.

0 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

Oh, so you also approve of Obama's drone killing of American citizens that also killed innocent people? No trial, no charge, just death by fiat.

No I do not approve of Obama's drone killing of American citizens....what reasonable American would condone such; however, in the case of the American born Fahd al-Quso, Senior Al-Qaida Leader, who was the mastermind of the underwear bomber who was caught in the process of trying to blow up a commercial plane, I'll make an exception.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

You're only guessing what will happen to Snowden.

I do not believe Snowden will be condemned to death. They did not put Jonathan Pollard to death and he stole classified documents to give to Israel who then gave these classified documents to the Soviet Union during the cold war. Then there is Bradley Manning. "United States v. Manning was the court-martial of former United States Army Private First Class Bradley E. Manning[1] (known after the trial as Chelsea Manning)."

"Manning was arrested in May 2010 in Iraq, where she had been stationed since October 2009, after Adrian Lamo, a computer hacker in the United States, provided information to Army Counterintelligence that Manning had acknowledged passing classified material to the whistleblower website, WikiLeaks.[3][4] Manning was ultimately charged with 22 specified offenses, including communicating national defense information to an unauthorized source, and the most serious of the charges, aiding the enemy.[1] Other charges included violations of the Espionage Act, stealing U.S. government property, charges under the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act and charges related to the failure to obey lawful general orders under Article 92 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. She entered guilty pleas to 10 of 22 specified offenses in February 2013.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Manning

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@Moment-in-Time,

You'll make the exception! Wow, who gave you that authority?

From Juan Cole.

Quote:

US Lists
We’re not alone in keeping lists of the covert war dead. Just a few days ago, the Washington Post reported that ‘U.S. officials have said that more than 2,000 militants and civilians have been killed in Pakistan, Yemen and elsewhere since Obama took office in 2009.’
The Bureau’s data indicates that between 2,300 and 3,290 people have died in Pakistan, Yemen and Somalia strikes under Obama.
Given that the Bureau’s base estimate for the total killed in Pakistan drone strikes is close to the CIA’s own, what clearly irks the US intelligence community is the light we continue to shine on civilians reported killed.
Since we began publishing our reports on civilian deaths from drone strikes, the US intelligence community has aggressively sought to attack our findings. Our media partners have been leaned on. The CIA claimed that we were getting our information from a ‘Pakistani spy’ (a barrister representing drone strike victims). And when we definitively showed, with the Sunday Times, that the CIA had been bombing rescuers and funeral-goers, it was suggested that we were ‘helping al Qaeda.’

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Snowden Retained Expert in Espionage Act Defense
By CHARLIE SAVAGE and MATT APUZZOAPRIL 28, 2014

WASHINGTON — Edward J. Snowden, the former National Security Agency contractor who provided journalists a trove of classified documents, retained a well-known Washington defense lawyer last summer in hopes of reaching a plea deal with federal prosecutors that would allow him to return to the United States and spare him significant prison time.

The lawyer, according to people familiar with the investigation, is Plato Cacheris, who has represented defendants in some of the highest-profile cases involving Espionage Act charges, including the convicted spies Aldrich Ames and Robert Hanssen and the convicted leaker Lawrence Franklin.

But nearly a year after Mr. Cacheris became involved, no agreement appears imminent, and government officials said the negotiations remained at an early stage.

The officials and others who discussed the case and Mr. Cacheris’s involvement in it spoke on condition of anonymity, citing the sensitivity of the talks.

Mr. Snowden, who now lives in Moscow, where he received temporary asylum, was charged last year with multiple violations of the Espionage Act. He faces up to 30 years in prison, and prosecutors could easily add more counts.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/29/us/snowden-retained-expert-in-espionage-act-defense.html?
___________
Other mentions of Snowden being charged with espionage.

Quote:

Independent Scotland could give asylum to 'traitor' Edward Snowden
Express.co.uk-19 hours ago
Snowden has been on the run from the authorities since June after ... He was charged with espionage in the US and fled to Hong Kong and ...

Firstpost
Edward Snowden leaks prompt "insidious" claims about spies - UK ...
Financial Express-May 8, 2014
In the wake of his leaks, Snowden fled the United States, where he faces espionage charges, and has since been granted temporary asylum in ...

1 Reply

@Moment-in-Time,

If Snowden's attorney and the government doesn't know how any trial will result, your guesses are worthless. I assume from past and current actions of our government how they will act on this issue, and the charge of espionage can mean the death penalty according to some commentaries. If the US doesn't care it kills innocent people when they target anyone they want to kill by drones, it leaves many questions about ethics and fairness of our government actions.

For Snowden to return to the US to be tried is a big gamble, IMHO. Especially at this point in time when his attorney is not sure what to do.

2 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

Snowden is expected to get 30 years in jail....possibly more, but much depends on the superior skill of his attorneys.

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Agreed.

0 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

If Snowden's attorney and the government doesn't know how any trial will result, your guesses are worthless.

My fellow poster, Ci, I am just an American on the outside looking in, and btw, posting my personal opinions. I concur with your above statement. I have no bearing on this trial whatsoever and my "guesses" for whatever reason, is as you say "worthless."

1 Reply

Snowdon is a dummy

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