Snowdon is a dummy

I don't show consternation. I just and only want that laws are obeyed and followed (remember Snowden?).

Well...maybe we are talking past each other, because I am discussing privacy right now...and I thought you were also. You were the one who brought the "There is no place to hide" topic up.

Anyway, it is my opinion that you can make all the laws you want to about privacy...but they will be about as useful as laws against earthquakes, tsunamis, and volcanic eruptions.

Privacy, to a major degree, is gone...and it is not coming back.



I do, indeed. But I thought that was all talked out, Walter.

I am one guy steadfastly demanding his rights to a fair trial be respected. He should have the opportunity to clear his name.

And since you want so much for laws to be obeyed, you should also.

I hope it happens soon.

Snowden is gone. Since quite some time. Which is known to those, who are awake.

He died???

As you know, Frank, I'm not a native English speaker.
I certainly might have used "to go" in a very wrong way. My bad.

So, to clarify: he didn't give up the ghost but is now hitting the sack outside the USA jurisdiction.

Sorry, Walter. I think your English is great...and I thought you were just pulling my leg a bit.

Edward Snowden is in Russia...and has political asylum.

Fine. I acknowledge he can do that...and have no problem with him doing it.

Obviously I do not consider him a hero...but as I have mentioned many times in the past, I also do not consider him to be a traitor.

I think he is a very mixed up guy who probably bit off more than he should...and he simply cannot chew it.

In any case, he is accused of serious crimes...and if he ever leaves his asylum, he almost certainly will be tried on those charges.

So...he is very much still here.

We'll see how that works out, but I think we honestly have discussed that to death. I understand and acknowledge the feelings of the people who consider him a hero of sorts...and who consider his actions to be commendable. I also understand and acknowledge the feelings of those who consider him to be a traitor...and who consider his actions to be despicable.

Only a trial can settle what the law determines him to be.

I wonder if Snowden has had second thoughts about his actions? He's stuck in Russia and its aggression into another country; Russia is a place far worse than the US when it comes to personal freedom, and a country that is also involved with spying on other countries big time. ....During the Cold War, American born Jonathan Pollard, former civilian U.S. Navy intelligence officer, sold tons of classified intelligence to Israel before being arrested in November 1985....Israel gave this US classified information to Russia. Snowden has given several interviews via Glenn Greenwald, former Guardian reporter, and will give his first face-to-face American interview with Brian Williams who has travelled to Russia. These interviews must be psychologically uplifting for the informer....a break in his isolation...... but he surely must be on pin and needles to move to another country that will allow him to breathed more freely.

Given that the US government would dearly love to lock him up in a dark cell for life as a warning to others not to tell the American people what the government is up to the USSR for him is a beacon of freedom.

Russia is the safest place to be, because the president has the authority to use drones to kill him.

Not likely. He thinks the US is wrong to hunt down the terrorists who massacre us, and he has convinced himself that he is doing a good thing by damaging our ability to protect ourselves.

Your source for that is?

Mainly Snowden himself. He leaves no doubt that he believes that he is a whistleblower who is exposing wrongdoing.

the american people and Congress seem to agree with him. You dont?

I didn't question that.

Not all of them. And those who do agree with him are wrong.



No. There was no wrongdoing in what he exposed. His only effect was to help terrorists kill Americans.

I recall you asking for my source of that information.

You can scroll up and re-read what I ask.

But here's a reduced copy of my post (with my marks)

I think the reason Frank says privacy is becoming obsolete is because younger people and not so younger people give their privacy away every single day voluntarily on facebook and the like. We give it away when we use the internet for any money transactions no matter how much we think we are safeguarding it, there is always someone smarter who can hack it if they want to. There are surveillance cameras all over the place, either private companies or local governments or in some cases around banks and post offices, the federal government watching us all the time.

Also, I think to some extent, the government would be plain irresponsible if they did not monitor internet chatter and keep up with data and things like that, however, there should be checks and balances and I think now there is a democrat in the office, the house is willing to strike those balances, perhaps the senate will and the president will sign.

What I have more of a problem is once they do have suspicious person, I think that person should have more rights than it seems they do to defend themselves whether they are from another country or citizens of the US. And I think congress should get off it's tuff and close down gitmo and either try the prisoners or let them go back to their home countries if there is not enough evidence to try them.

I don't know the reason why Frank keeps saying privacy is becoming obsolete.

Facebook, other social websites, shopping cards etc - that's me who decides about privacy, what I accept.

Internet chatter monitored by the government because it's responsible? Then, what is the difference to phone calls, written letters, private conversations?

It is done, no doubt. Here, there, everywhere. But in a known "open sphere".
I think that privacy is a human right.
At least where I live.

I do not think the US is seriously trying to kill Americans....they just want to imprison the informer, or whistleblower, Edward Snowden.

Look, Ci, the National Security Agency (NSA) had gotten a new technology system with which to catch those who would seek to harm the US. In the current-stage-of technology, this methodology ended up capturing almost everyone in its net; the system has to be improved, unquestionably, but concurrently, we have alerted some terrorists to our Mode Operandi i.e., method of operation.....Metadata is here to stay, but it just has to be surgically refined. It is said if such were in place at the time of 9/11 perhaps that tragedy might have been prevented......well, if Cheney had not been the de facto president of the US.....such just might have worked....but then again there were pre-9/11 warning signals all over the place but were ignored....whether from incompetence or deliberately....it's difficult to ascertain without a complete and thorough investigation of the GWB administration.

The reality is the US as well as other countries are doing the same thing as we write. When Barack first became president, his Blackberry was taken away; the reason given, people with advancing technology would be capable of listening in on the president's calls. Now I think it was absolutely wrong to listen in on Chancellor Angela Merkel's calls and one can readily understand her still being miffed at the US president.

With our new technology, we are going places we dared not dream of before, but this technology is still in its infancy, and in time it will become a much more sophisticated industrial science. We are recorded with cameras at the bank, stores, on street corners, etc. When you apply for a credit card they know practically everything about one. There is no such thing as complete privacy anymore......

Trust me, all countries are trying to reach the precise level of savoir vivre as the US. All countries spy on other countries and are trying their level best to upgrade their systems.

The disgust I feel for Snowden is that he deliberaetly harmed his country by BETRAYING classified information and then sneaking out of the country like a rat. A true whistle blower would have stayed and faced the music and be judged by his peers.

I am loyal to my country and its people....as most people are. I would not deliberately hurt the land of my birth by telling the world its scrects; there were serious opportunities for Snowden to report this classified information to the proper authorities in this country; why did Snowden not prevail himself of this circumstance?!

I am not the only American who feel Snowden went about this the wrong way. By telling the world he also alerted the terrorists.

There is no love or admiration for Edward Snowden for what he did to America and the American people.

P.S. Do not get me wrong.....I can respect your feeling anger at the US as well as your emotions; yet, by the same token, I would respect it if you will respect my feelings and sentiment. There is never a respectful reason to lower oneself to name calling because I harbor an opinion which is at loggerheads with yours. Thanking you in advance.