41
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 May, 2014 07:50 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
Snowden has revealed more cases of executives from key European or other companies being spied on by the NSA.

If so, the spying was not related to the theft of corporate secrets. One possible reason for such spying might be because it gave information about a government that we were spying on.


Olivier5 wrote:
Wake up and smell the coffee already. Anti-terrorism has grown into a fig leaf for greed. It would not surprise me if the good guys within the NSA were involved in all sorts of dirty commercial and financial deals.

They are not. Only China and France engage in such behavior.

(I'm referring to the French government here, not trying to slight you personally.)
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 May, 2014 08:18 am
Quote:
[...]
"This report confirms my greatest fears — Snowden’s real acts of betrayal place America’s military men and women at greater risk. Snowden’s actions are likely to have lethal consequences for our troops in the field," Rogers said in a statement at the time.

But details to back up Rogers' claims are not included in the declassified material released to the Guardian.

Neither he nor any other lawmaker has disclosed specific details from the DIA report but they have continued to push the “damage” narrative in interviews with journalists and during appearances on Sunday talk shows.

The declassified portion of the report obtained by the Guardian says only that DIA “assesses with high confidence that the information compromise by a former NSA contractor [redacted] and will have a GRAVE impact on US national defense”.

The declassified material does not state the number of documents Snowden is alleged to have taken, which Rogers and Ruppersberger have claimed, again citing the DIA’s assessment, was 1.7m. Nor does the declassified portion of the report identify Snowden by name.

“[Redacted] a former NSA contractor compromised [redacted] from NSA Net and the Joint Worldwide Intelligence Communications System (JWICS),” the report says. “On 6 June 2013, media groups published the first stories based on this material, and on 9 June 2013 they identified the source as an NSA contractor who had worked in Hawaii.”

JWICS is identified as a “24 hour a day network designed to meet the requirements for secure [top-secret/sensitive compartmented information] multi-media intelligence communications worldwide. The Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) has directed that all Special Security Offices (SSOs) will install the JWICS.”

The Washington Post, quoting anonymous sources, reported last October that Snowden “lifted the documents from a top-secret network run by the Defense Intelligence Agency and used by intelligence arms of the Army, Air Force, Navy and Marines.” The Post further claimed that Snowden “took 30,000 documents that involve the intelligence work of one of the services” and that he gained access to the documents through JWICS.

The report says that on 11 July 2013, about a month after the Guardian’s first report on the NSA’s metadata program was published, DIA chief Lieutenant General Michael Flynn “directed establishment of the Information Review Task Force 2 (IRTF-2) to acquire, triage, analyze, and assess all DIA and DoD compromised information”.

“Since 11 July 2013, IRTF-2 has led a coordinated DoD effort to discover, triage, and assess the impact of non-NSA Defense material from NSA holdings of compromised data,” according to the DIA report. “As of 18 December 2013, the federated IRTF-2 assessment includes: [redacted]”

Flynn was recently forced out of his position at DIA as part of a “leadership shakeup,” according to a report published in the Washington Post.

A partially declassified annex of the report contains various “terms of reference” that provide some clues as to what the impact assessment contains. For example, the report defines “compromised” as “out of government control”, while “disclosed” is defined as “made available to the public via the media, or to a foreign adversary”.

No evidence has surfaced to support persistent claims from pundits and lawmakers that Snowden has provided any of the NSA documents he obtained to a “foreign adversary”. ... ... ...

Source and full report: Pentagon report finds Snowden leaks had 'staggering' intelligence impact
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 May, 2014 09:33 am
@Olivier5,
I am attempting to look it up to find out exactly to what you are referring, forgive me if you guys covered this already, can you please provide a source so I can look it up?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 May, 2014 09:41 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
If so, the spying was not related to the theft of corporate secrets. One possible reason for such spying might be because it gave information about a government that we were spying on.
Well, Germany for instance.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 May, 2014 10:31 am
@Walter Hinteler,
There might be hope on mass data collection.
http://news.yahoo.com/house-passes-curbs-nsa-surveillance-154449280--politics.html
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Thu 22 May, 2014 11:22 am
The former president of the (German) Federal Constitutional Court and now one of the most important German legal chairs, gave an expertise at the parliamentary committee.

What the NSA did, he said, was a severe criminal act. The German government and parliament had the constitutional duty to protect the German citizens against such attacks.
He gave a lot of legal advise how that should be done. [Which hopefully will be online in English soon, since I'm not in the mood to translate all those legal terms.]
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 May, 2014 12:51 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

The former president of the (German) Federal Constitutional Court and now one of the most important German legal chairs, gave an expertise at the parliamentary committee.

What the NSA did, he said, was a severe criminal act. The German government and parliament had the constitutional duty to protect the German citizens against such attacks.
He gave a lot of legal advise how that should be done. [Which hopefully will be online in English soon, since I'm not in the mood to translate all those legal terms.]


How do you say, "Let's declare war on them?" in German
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Thu 22 May, 2014 01:22 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
How do you say, "Let's declare war on them?" in German
Today's expertises - there were several - weren't about "war on them" - but about constitutional rights of German citizens and that our government doesn't follow the constitution when acting like they do.

So, they (these legal experts) explained that our foreign secret service actually could do and does the very same ... and that there's no law stopping them.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 May, 2014 01:49 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
I just want to add that Germany and the US agreed to engage in a "cyber dialogue" to address their disagreements over intelligence gathering and data protection, with a first round of talks scheduled for late June.

Yesterday, German interior minister Thomas de Maiziere told journalists in Washington that Holder has accepted an invitation from Berlin to explain how the US would curb spying on Germans.

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 May, 2014 01:51 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
"Curb?" Doesn't sound too promising.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 May, 2014 02:04 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Not on Merkel as said earlier plus now someone else = 100% increase in non-spying. Very Happy
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 23 May, 2014 01:38 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Report/book review in the Guardian: No Place to Hide: Edward Snowden, the NSA and the Surveillance State by Glenn Greenwald – review

Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 May, 2014 05:47 am
@Walter Hinteler,


We certainly do not need someone like Glenn Greenwald to tell us that...at least, not the ones of us who are awake and willing to face reality.

Not only do governments and commercial enterprises regularly watch and monitor what we are doing...we regularly watch and monitor each other.

Walk down any busy street anywhere...and there are cameras and listening devices galore. I carry one of each...and most likely so do each of you.

We have all got to wake up and see the future....because it is NOW.

We can live with this...and I suspect we can live with it quite comfortably. But like the automobile when it first came into existence, it is going to be treated as some kind of fatal intrusion by the masses.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 May, 2014 06:19 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
But like the automobile when it first came into existence, it is going to be treated as some kind of fatal intrusion by the masses.


Which it has turned out to be beyond the wildest fears expressed at that time.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 May, 2014 06:53 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
We certainly do not need someone like Glenn Greenwald to tell us that...at least, not the ones of us who are awake and willing to face reality.
Amazing, Frank, that you and all the others, who were and are awake, knew all that.

Seems, reality was only known to insiders.

Are you suggesting now that all the others, who didn't belong to that group of people, should be left in the dark?
I mean, neither you nor anyone of the others told us about it.

But I agree: automobile is a very good analogy - it started here in Germany, too. And before that, we had had Mr. Diesel and Mr. Otto ...
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 May, 2014 07:45 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
We certainly do not need someone like Glenn Greenwald to tell us that...at least, not the ones of us who are awake and willing to face reality.
Amazing, Frank, that you and all the others, who were and are awake, knew all that.

Seems, reality was only known to insiders.


It was available to anyone who was awake...and willing to see the situation for what it is.

I have been saying that consistently, Walter.

Countries are going to spy on one another...and the fact that they are "allies" will not impact on that. The US is going to spy on those we consider friend and foe alike to the maximum of our ability...and I am almost certain that Germany is also. And the "intrusions" are not confined to country v. country...but countries v. citizens...and citizens v. citizens.

That simply is the way it is.


Quote:
Are you suggesting now that all the others, who didn't belong to that group of people, should be left in the dark?


That is your choice, Walter...and yours alone. It is every individual's choice.

If you demand that you not see the situation as it is...then you will not see it.





Quote:
I mean, neither you nor anyone of the others told us about it.


Not sure of what you have been reading, Walter, but I have been telling you this from the beginning...and have been consistent in it. You simply are being obstinate and refusing to see it.

Now you are refusing to acknowledge that I have been saying it right along????



Quote:
But I agree: automobile is a very good analogy - it started here in Germany, too. And before that, we had had Mr. Diesel and Mr. Otto ...


Okay. But best you forget about the analogy...and open your eyes to the truth of what our technology has wrought. This is where we are now...privacy is a thing of the past. (I think I mentioned that earlier!)

THERE IS NO PLACE TO HIDE.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 May, 2014 07:49 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
It was available to anyone who was awake...and willing to see the situation for what it is.

I have been saying that consistently, Walter.
I'd thought that our Constitutional Court (especially under his former president Papier, whom I quoted above) was quite awake as the other legal experts and MPs.

They must have been sleeping like I did and the vast majority of Germans.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 May, 2014 07:52 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

THERE IS NO PLACE TO HIDE.
You should have told that the NSA earlier, Frank!
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 May, 2014 08:24 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
It was available to anyone who was awake...and willing to see the situation for what it is.

I have been saying that consistently, Walter.
I'd thought that our Constitutional Court (especially under his former president Papier, whom I quoted above) was quite awake as the other legal experts and MPs.

They must have been sleeping like I did and the vast majority of Germans.


Either sleeping; kidding themselves and the public; or just damned liars.

Your choice, Walter.

Privacy, the way some people expect, IS DEAD.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Fri 23 May, 2014 08:28 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

THERE IS NO PLACE TO HIDE.
You should have told that the NSA earlier, Frank!


The NSA already knows it. They have known it for a relatively long time.

I'm not trying to bust your chops, Walter. I like you...and I understand your consternation.

But the world has changed...and things are possible now that were impossible just a few years ago.

That is especially true in the area of invading supposedly private space.

Countries are going to spy on other countries in ways that boggle the mind. Companies, especially but not confined to the capitalistic world, are going to intrude on personal privacy in the name of profit (or the greater good).

People are going to use devices freely that invade on public space...and nobody is going to stop that from happening.

I understand your consternation, Walter, but it is my opinion that ultimately this will be considered an extremely good thing.
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
  1. Forums
  2. » Snowdon is a dummy
  3. » Page 363
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.07 seconds on 05/14/2024 at 12:56:06