42
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Thu 11 Jul, 2013 02:31 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

What information does the government agencies want to get? I'm really curious to find out.
That is exactly my point: they just collect it ... it could be that it was worth the effort, who knows? Especially, when it can be connected with your neigbour's skype-calls, your A2K-friends' responses, your travel agent's foreign email connections, your ...
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 11 Jul, 2013 02:59 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
And how do you suppose they'll use that information to charge you with a crime?

What "freedoms" have you really lost? "Privacy?" Really?

JTT
 
  1  
Thu 11 Jul, 2013 03:07 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
As I said, Izzy...if you want to think that the UK does not get anything out of the deal...and still does the US's bidding...then they are patsies.

That is up to you.


This has got to be the kind of incisive writing that has made you your local rag's go to guy, Frank.
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Thu 11 Jul, 2013 03:11 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Quote:
As I said, Izzy...if you want to think that the UK does not get anything out of the deal...and still does the US's bidding...then they are patsies.

That is up to you.


This has got to be the kind of incisive writing that has made you your local rag's go to guy, Frank.


http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/funny/1/vomit.gif
0 Replies
 
Moment-in-Time
 
  0  
Thu 11 Jul, 2013 03:23 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:

In any case, just being in a special relationship often is reward in and of itself. Maybe that is the benefit.


Ah, Frank, what a profound statement.

Technically: "The Special Relationship is a phrase used to describe the exceptionally close political, diplomatic, cultural, economic, military and historical relations between the United Kingdom and the United States, following its use in a 1946 speech by British statesman Winston Churchill.

"Although both the United Kingdom and United States have close relationships with many other nations, the level of cooperation between them in economic activity, trade and commerce, military planning, execution of military operations, nuclear weapons technology, and intelligence sharing has been described as "unparalleled" among major powers.

The United Kingdom and United States have been close allies in numerous military and political conflicts including World War I, World War II, the Korean War, the Cold War, the Gulf War, and the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan in the 21st century."

Quote:
If you were looking for roses every month or so...then you are correct. We have not sent flowers.


LOL! It's very difficult to get blood from a stone. You have answered to the best of your ability and the powers that be can ask no more.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Thu 11 Jul, 2013 03:33 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
Thank you, MIT.

The relationship between the US and the UK...IS special...and I hope it remains special.

I have a "special relationship" with Izzy. He introduced me to Killer Sudoku's...which are my favorite indoor pastime.

I would hope there are many "benefits" that accrue to both of us...as "people to people" if not as "government to government", although I suspect there are plenty of government to government accruals also.

Izzy, and many here (including Americans), are angry about what we are doing in the way of surveillance.

Okay...the right to be pissed is still operating.

I am more comfortable with some of the things going on than others.

That also is allowed.

I feel less privacy is a given from this point on...and going on and on about it is futile.

I appreciate that you can see the point I am trying to make...and that you state it better than I am able.
JTT
 
  0  
Thu 11 Jul, 2013 03:36 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
MiT, I'm now under the impression that you are more than, simply, a concerned citizen. You work at a university, do you? Are you a professor, a librarian, a ...?
0 Replies
 
Moment-in-Time
 
  1  
Thu 11 Jul, 2013 04:04 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:

I appreciate that you can see the point I am trying to make...and that you state it better than I am able.


I find you an excellent poster, Frank, frequently so articulate. I understand what you're going through trying to explain yourself and in a way what applies to you also covers me as you and I are identical on this subject; however, where you continue back and forth attempting to explain, I simply give up as I'm not long on patience.

There was one time I disagreed with you and that was right after I had started posting on a2k; I was drinking dry sherry that night (18% proof alcohol) during the three-way exchange; you tried to explain to me but I wasn't thinking clearly. The next day I realized you were right and I was in the wrong.

Since that time I have admired you greatly, finding you to be one fantastic poster loaded with so much wisdom......Don't mean to embarrass you!
Olivier5
 
  2  
Thu 11 Jul, 2013 06:36 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
What "freedoms" have you really lost? "Privacy?" Really?

Spying is considered a crime in many countries, including the US I would assume. Why do you think the United States kept conplaining about Chinese cyberspying? Well, they can't do that anymore. China is quite happy about the whole story I'm sure: now they can spy all their heart's content without anyone complaining... And I trust them to do it in a more strategic and targetted manner than the US.
JTT
 
  1  
Thu 11 Jul, 2013 07:01 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
Quote:
I find you an excellent poster, Frank, frequently so articulate.


Me too, MiT. Which emoticon for you captures the essence of Frank's articulateness?

Quote:
where you continue back and forth attempting to explain, I simply give up as I'm not long on patience.


Fatuous, completely fatuous. Frank falls to the inane - "you're entitled to you opinion and I to mine". If he actually believed such ludicrous position, why on earth would he ever have written anything for the editorial pages.

Quote:
Since that time I have admired you greatly, finding you to be one fantastic poster loaded with so much wisdom.


Read: Can I expect you to support me? If you'll support my inanity I'll reciprocate.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 11 Jul, 2013 07:09 pm
@Olivier5,
What spying? Please spell out what's involved in their spying? What privacy are they spying on that can be used to charge any citizen of any crime?
JTT
 
  2  
Thu 11 Jul, 2013 08:08 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
And how do you suppose they'll use that information to charge you with a crime?

What "freedoms" have you really lost? "Privacy?" Really?


I'm pretty sure that the US has milked the "yellow peril" BS as much as propaganda will allow, but considering the depraved nature of the US, which seems to so easily direct upon countries and peoples such rage and inhumanity and the ease with which USians are duped, ya just never know, CI.

Did you know that before WWII, according to one source I've read, some 1/5 of the US population believed that the Japanese race should be exterminated, as in wiped out, gone from the surface of the earth.

I don't think that it's too much of a stretch to believe that this group of American patriots would believe that this should be extended to their fellow citizens. Sounds like fertile ground, given the right leader/s to happen along, for another holocaust.

I guess that we can thank our lucky stars that FDR's level of evil was such that he could contain himself.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Thu 11 Jul, 2013 08:28 pm
@cicerone imposter,
They are spying on Americans and non-Americans. They are spying on embassies, on firms, on pretty much what they fancy to look at. It's scary, I think.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Thu 11 Jul, 2013 08:30 pm
@Olivier5,
Spying on what is a crime? That I called my sister today?
Olivier5
 
  2  
Thu 11 Jul, 2013 08:40 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Ok, if you don't feel scared by the implications of living in a total glasshouse, good for you. With fascist media like FAUX, the lobbies, and the ever growing militaro-insustrialo-spook complex, the political system of the US is getting increasingly out of citizen's control. You're ready for your own version of Mussolini now. Just one or two more baby steps and you're there.
Brandon9000
 
  2  
Thu 11 Jul, 2013 08:52 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

I agree, but at least we elect them democratically, which is basically what I meant. And, yes, I was born in 1953.




Not a lot of democracy about when George W Bush asked his brother Jeb to fix the results in Florida.

Let me see if I understand your argument correctly. You are claiming that the US is not a democratic republic because there are, from time to time, cases of election fraud? Is that your argument?
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Thu 11 Jul, 2013 08:53 pm
@Olivier5,
In many ways, we already live in a "glasshouse." People actually purposely build glass houses.

If you have any credit cards, the banks know what you spend, where you spend it, and how much you spend. That they are required to keep that information confidential doesn't keep it confidential from those who work for the bank, and processes your account.

If you travel, the government knows when you travel to other countries, the dates, and when you return.

If you file income tax returns, the government knows your marriage status, how many children you support, your gross and taxable income, and the amount of taxes you pay.

If you go on any social networks, anyone who happens to visit the thread you post on knows your thinking about different subjects.

Credit rating companies know your credit score, and they share that with the banks and businesses you wish to do business with.

So, what sort of information is it that you are against the government keeping track of?

Over and above all that, hackers have gotten into bank accounts, social security information, military files, government files, and business files of commercial companies here in the states and elsewhere in Europe, Asia, and South America.

I'd be more upset at these hackers.

If you really believe they listen to all telephone calls and read every email, I think you need to study a little bit of logistics and common sense.

So, what's the secret about you that you're afraid of that the government will use against you?

This isn't the Third Reich, Red China, Russia, North Korea or Cuba.

I've been to China 3X's, Russia Twice, and Cuba five times. What should I be afraid of at home?


Brandon9000
 
  0  
Thu 11 Jul, 2013 09:04 pm
@Mame,
Mame wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

Do they allow free elections? Has anyone been punished for the execution of political prisoners? Why has a single family been in charge all of this time? No, between what they did in the past and what they're doing now, I feel no great urge to lift the embargo. In truth, I don't feel very strongly about it either way, but they are a communist dictatorship right off our shores, so I feel no particular urge to give them a break unless they show a real willingness to improve. Don't bother telling me that we cooperate with other countries just as bad (albeit not adjacent to us).


What business is it of YOURS what type of government they have?

I am certainly entitled to act differently towards people or countries that I don't like. Am I not entitled to decide on my own actions?

Mame wrote:
Why do you approve of trade with China and Russia?

Well, first of all, Russia does have elections, no matter how imperfect, but let's talk about China. I agree that there are other dictatorships that we do trade with, but:

1. With Cuba, it is only one of several factors.
2. I am more concerned about countries in my proximity.
3. I am not faced with a choice between always punishing bad behavior or never doing so. I can do it just sometimes.

Mame wrote:
What's next? They have to be Protestants?

No. I never mentioned religion. This would seem to be a case of setting up a straw man so that you can knock it down. Never said that.

Mame wrote:
Why should they show a "willingness to improve" and improve in what ways?

If they want our good will, I mean. Surely we're entitled to determine who we like. What ways, you ask? Allowing free elections and free speech would be a great start.

Mame wrote:
Who are you to tell another country how they should live? How arrogant!!!

First of all, I am only saying that I don't like brutal dictatorships. Surely I'm allowed to make that judgement. I should also point out that I'm not really telling the "country" of Cuba, since most of the country isn't allowed to participate in the government anyway. I am telling the dictators who rule Cuba.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Thu 11 Jul, 2013 10:53 pm
@Olivier5,
I agree. If someone doesn't doesn't want her/his privacy to be kept private, that's fine for this person.

But that's a personal decission and get be taken general in my opinion.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Thu 11 Jul, 2013 10:54 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

If you travel, the government knows when you travel to other countries, the dates, and when you return.
As far as I know: no. Or, they are follwing me and I don't notice it.
0 Replies
 
 

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