Snowdon is a dummy

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Well, then, Hitler would have loved Frank. How's that!

Shockingly stupid. Both comments diminish you.

I'm going to resist reading anything else on A2K today. This has put me in a terrible mood. It's one thing to argue vigorously, it's an entirely different matter to do what you have done.

I want to prepare for a family dinner tomorrow, and I can't afford to listen to my own countrymen call other hitler fans or people hitler would like, one week after a white supremacist shot and killed 3 people near Jewish centers in Kansas. He was so full of hate he killed 3 people just on a hunch they might be Jews and if that doesn't scare the hell out of you, it should. Hate begets hate, I'm not going to play with you boys today. I need a shower, thanks!

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@Frank Apisa,

I don't think that someone who travels a lot, especially as a retired person, is unpatriotic. But on the other hand, since Americans are already world travellers when they've visited another state - you might have here a mainstream US-conservative opinion, too.

Hitler certainly can't be reduced and minimised to his network of spies.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

I find it insulting that Frank believes his "guesses" are more important than other people's opinions that has more credibility based on history, science, facts, and other people's actual experiences.

You can apologize to Frank all you wish, but you're in no position to tell others what to do.

I didn't insult Frank, and you missed my point. I think you owe me an apology. My Dad spent 6 years of his life in the Army Air Corps, most of it in western and Eastern Europe helping the US and our Allies defeat that monster, so you and other can now insult each other by pulling out the Hitler card??? This kind of reckless insulting nonsense pisses on the memory of those people who actually suffered under Hitler. You mention Cambodia!!! Would you refer to others as Pol Pot or what about Idi Amin???? You should thank God or luck you are not facing actual persecution everyday instead of fainting over the imaginary persecution so many people fear.

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@glitterbag,

WOW! Your dad actually 'sacrificed' during WWII, and you're incensed? I'm not impressed.

Our country put us in concentration camps during WWII, and I'm third generation American.

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@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

Our country put us in concentration camps

My I never knew those internment camps in the south west worked their inmates to death while starving them into human skeletons

As that is the only reason I can see to call those internment camps by the same name as the Nazis concentration camps to say nothing of putting those who could not work into ovens.

I had met and talk to some of the survivors of concentration camps and unless the US government was able to hide that level of mistreatment in the internment camps since the 1940s you owe one hell of an apologize to the survivors of real concentration camps.

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@BillRM,

You are quite ignorant; what we had in the US were concentration camps. What they had in Germany were extermination camps.

We lost our Constitutionally guaranteed freedoms in the US. We're not talking about Nazi Germany - or any place else.

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@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

You are quite ignorant; what we had in the US were concentration camps. What they had in Germany were extermination camps.

Bullshit............the name given to the Nazis camps was indeed concentration camps and not all Nazis concentration camps was extermination camps but force labor camps where the deaths was due to mistreatment not the ovens.

So fool how many Japanese Americans was work to death or starve to death or for that matter died due to lack of medical care?

The internment camps had nothing to do with concentration camps and you should once more be ashamed of yourself for using that term for them.

By using the term concentration camps you was the one trying to connect the Nazis camps to the internment camps in the US during the war not me.

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@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

We lost our Constitutionally guaranteed freedoms in the US. We're not talking about Nazi Germany - or any place else.

The constitution allowed the suspension of rights such as the right of habeas corpus under certain conditions such as say the possibility of a full scale invasion of the West coast by the Empire of Japan.

Now the wisdom and the security needs to round up a large percent of the Japanese American, who loyalty the government was not sure of, on the west coast looking back seems lacking and even racist.

Still it is far easier to see that looking back then in the time frame where the west coast have only a few aircraft carriers to stop a massive invasion and where some US islands off the Alaska coast had Japanese forces on them.

The main shame of this whole WW2 Japanese American event was that once the war was over the US did not break out the check book and made them whole for the lost of businesses and homes and to get them back on their feet.

To wait for a few generations and then give a few survivors fairly small token checks is indeed shameful.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

WOW! Your dad actually 'sacrificed' during WWII, and you're incensed? I'm not impressed.

Our country put us in concentration camps during WWII, and I'm third generation American.

My family came here when the British starved us into oblivion, I'm not pissed at the Brits, I'm more worried about the future. My Dad didn't sacrifice, he fought.

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This is now officially a piss and moan club. It truly awful that Americans of Japanese heritage were forced into camps after the nation of Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, it's unforgivable that Hitler led a nation in an attempt to enslave the world and attempted genocide on the Jewish people. The Russians committed mass murder at the Katyn Forest, killing hundreds of Polish officers and blamed it on Germany. Stalin killed his own country men, so did Pol Pot, idi Amin, Rwanda was brutal and when all of these things happened millions of innocent people lost their lives, their livelihoods, their homes and their futures.

All of this misery passed around, and some of you are playing I walked uphill both ways to school in the snow without shoes. I tell you what, I hate war, but when Americans are sent into harms way, I want to make sure they get home.

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@glitterbag,

You think your life was difficult, and mention how you had to walk both ways to school without shoes.

You're the one playing the pissing contest.

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@cicerone imposter,

Are you being intentionally thick???? I am not saying I had a horrible life, I'm describing what you and some of the others are doing. The atrocity that was committed on you is not as bad or is worse than the atrocity committed on me. It's you,,,,,, I'm saying you are trivializing the suffering of others because someone from your family suffered. It's suffering for Christ's sake, no one should have to suffer.

Unless you can think of some group who deserves to suffer, you tell me.

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@glitterbag,

FYI, most people if they're alive have suffering. It's not unique to any one person.

I don't go around blathering about my suffering.

One of the best stories I heard as a child is a good lesson for you.

"A young boy cried, because he had no shoes, until he saw a boy without feet."

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

You certainly are better informed, glitterbag.

What I found out on the web is that he signed a "CLASSIFIED INFORMATION NONDISCLOSURE AGREEMENT" (that seems similar to what I'd to sign, only ours was shorter).
In it, he (and others) "swore" (= affirmed) "to support and defend the Constitution of the U.S., against all enemies, foreign and domestic".
He (and others) "swore" to support and defend, among other elements of the Constitution, the First, Fourth, Fifth and Sixth Amendments in the Bill of Rights, and Article I, section 8, on war powers.

Are you speaking as an American who worked for the United States Intelligence Community? If you are, then you know that in addition to signing a non disclosure agreement, you also hold up your hand and swer to uphold the laws of this nation.
You mentioned that Germany has continues to share intell with the US, and that's true. Is there any particular reason you didn't mention that the US continues to share intell with Germany? That would seem to me you think it's a one way street, I'm sure you didn't intend to say that. The US also picks up a large part of the cost for Germany's defense. That doesn't get a lot of attention from the American taxpayers, and even when it does bubble to the surface, rest assured a huge wave of anti-other country doesn't sweep the nation.
But, then again, our citizens came and continue to come from every corner of the world.
By the way, I think it's great you can track your family back a thousand years. Most of us in the US can't, we've only been a country since the American Revolution.

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@cicerone imposter,

Holy crap, that is what I am telling you. That chip on your shoulder is so heavy you don't hear what Im saying. Human beings are not on this earth forever. We get sick, we die, some are disabled, some suffer horribly. No one should suffer horribly at the hands of others, that mean you and your family deserved better treatment. I'm not disagreeing with you, you have a right to feel wronged, because you were wronged. However, you don't get to snort with contempt because others were forced to participate in a war they didn't start. Citizens suffer because leaders make poor decisions.

By the way, I didn't walk to school both ways without shoes, that's an American expression. It means, I see your desperate situation, and raise you one heart attack and several surgeries.

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@glitterbag,

All your "shoulds" are oxymorons. I live a pretty priviledged life, and have traveled to over 200 countries - equivalent to traveling around this planet over 30 times. I've seen more, experienced more, and have met and made friends all around the world.

Your assumption that I have a "chip on my shoulder" is so far off reality, your imagination is working over time.

Give it up! You're only making a fool out of yourself.

I wasn't "wronged." I bless the fact that my grandfather came to this country to give us a good life. Most of my family and friends have done very well in this country. Why would I have any grudge against the country that provided us with such riches?

My brother is now a Mayor of his town, and served two terms in the state legislature. BTW, he's an Opthalmologist, and so is his oldest daughter.

Yea, give up while you're so far behind.

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@cicerone imposter,

My mistake, it must have been someone else whose 3rd generation American family was forced into a camp for Americans of Japanese descent.

Plus I had no idea in the world I was addressing some one who has an Ophthalmologist in his family. I shall slink away in shame. Dear God, an actual doctor!!!! Who do I think I am.

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@glitterbag,

You love to make a fool out of yourself, so I'll egg you on! LOL

Where anyone is born is not selected by the newborn, but by migrants who move far and wide in order to live a freer life with more opportunities to live a standard of life better than the one they left.

It was not only "third generation American families (of Japanese decent)" forced into camps in the US. There were also some Germans and Italians. Yes, another mistake on your part. Since then, our government apologized and gave each surviving Japanese American $20,000.

That my brother is an Opthalmologist, Mayor, and past Assemblyman was only an example of how this country has been good to us. But, you missed the whole message. because I said "family and friends."

We have nine doctors in our immediate family, and I'm very proud of that fact. Do you still believe we have a grudge against this country?

Ignorance has no limit.

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@glitterbag,

glitterbag wrote:

Are you speaking as an American who worked for the United States Intelligence Community? If you are, then you know that in addition to signing a non disclosure agreement, you also hold up your hand and swer to uphold the laws of this nation.

No, I only might have worked indirectly for them. This swearing with holding up a hand is only done at the appointment of the government and president here. (Even in courts, it's just done verbally.)

glitterbag wrote:

You mentioned that Germany has continues to share intell with the US, and that's true. Is there any particular reason you didn't mention that the US continues to share intell with Germany? That would seem to me you think it's a one way street, I'm sure you didn't intend to say that.

It certainly isn't a one-way street. But less traffic on one side, "they" say.

glitterbag wrote:

The US also picks up a large part of the cost for Germany's defense. That doesn't get a lot of attention from the American taxpayers, ...

It's not known here either.
All the figures we get to know are those in the budget(s). And according to them (position 12.15, Titel 632.03) and an official response by the German government from last year (letter as pdf ) here Germany paid during the last 10 years roughly 600 million Euros for buildings for the US-forces and 400 million Euros for other expenses (e.g. 14 million per year for damages done by US-forces on German civil property)

I couldn't find any source for the amount with which the USA pays for the costs of our defense. But I'm not really a specialist reading the federal budget, I admit.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Some additional informationen to the above post:
in my county, we've a special department which pays all salaries and costs for the civil employees with the US-forces in germany (besides those in the state of Rhineland-Palatine, where the state does it themselves) They get most costs back by the states and federal government.

Unemployment benefits and some other social security benefits for civil employees are fully and exclusively paid by Germany.

Germany paid until now about 170 million Euros for the new US-military hospital in Weilersbach (a replacement for the hospital in Landsberg).

The US-embassy Berlin summed the cost up in 2009. Their view >here<

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Snowdon is a dummy

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