Snowdon is a dummy

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

The reason they are doing it is to protect your right to do so.

They are doing it for cash, career and because they can't stop themselves.

"The riot squad are restless, they need somewhere to go."

They don't give a damn about us speaking out. For or against. Or our right to do so. Or saving our lives.

They have already valued our importance by spying on us with our own dough for no good reason. We are the ones who Lenin said are "the ones to whom it is done." And there is nothing like the heady sniff of being "the ones that do" for shifting the hubris into to top gear. And that goes double for nerds who are happy to spend their precious time trawling through the details of our daily doings in the hope, a fond belief in fact, that they will have a long, luxurious retirement with our dough. "We'll see about that!!" a bright teenager might well shout.

I'm all on board for the US spying on our highest councils. Or anybody else's. Mrs Whiteside doesn't know what she is doing herself never mind that lot finding out.

I bet the Stasi methods were far superior for finding where any dangers lurked. What's Apisa's choice between Stasi-style and saving lives? Not that he will answer because he claims I don't respect him. Asking questions like that he considers disrespectful and they justify him turning on his heel and stamping out. Not something I am unused to.

Bernard Shaw said to ponder the extremities before trying to get a grip on the centre zone in between. So what's the extremity of the "saving lives" dostrine. A joke actually.

And Jesus could have saved his own life simply by taking a trip to Corinth, say, for some R&R with his mates. He sacrificed it in a ghastly manner to show us a Shining Path.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

The reason they are doing it is to protect your right to do so.

Thank you!

Germany, and here our capital Berlin, will honour this as well: the "Alexanderplatz" (the largest public square and a big transport hub in the central Mitte district of Berlin) will be re-named after NSA's Keith Brian Alexander in "Alexanderplatz". Because the district 'Mitte' as well as the state of Berlin are short of money, the old street signs won't be changed ...

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
The reason they are doing it is to protect your right to do so.

Thank you!

Germany, and here our capital Berlin, will honour this as well: the "Alexanderplatz" (the largest public square and a big transport hub in the central Mitte district of Berlin) will be re-named after NSA's Keith Brian Alexander in "Alexanderplatz". Because the district 'Mitte' as well as the state of Berlin are short of money, the old street signs won't be changed ...

That was clever, Walter. Wink

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@Frank Apisa,

TODAY we do a lot of such things.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Why do you play this silly and irrelevant game with Apisa Walt?

Can't you see that he is treating us like mental defectives? His "saving lives" tripe was blown out of the water by my last post.

By not addressing points raised in a discussion, whatever the excuse, proves he is trolling. Beyond question. We are being used to pass his time preening his ego.

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@spendius,

spendius wrote:

Why do you play this silly and irrelevant game with Apisa Walt?

Can't you see that he is treating us like mental defectives? His "saving lives" tripe was blown out of the water by my last post.

Well, I really didn't want to tell him again, that
- we are an independent country, and at least since the Treaty on the Final Settlement with Respect to Germany (1990) can't tell us what to do anymore,
- we have constitutional rights, which are observed by the Federal Court for the Constitution,
- we have one Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution and 16 State Authority for the Protection of the Constitution (the small city states don't have an own agency for such).

Using a foreign spy agency to spy on German citizens and on the German government as a protection of my rights isn't even a bad April Fools joke

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@Walter Hinteler,

Are you saying that the US has some kind of spying facility on your soil to spy on your citizens without permission from someone in your government? Or are you saying that we spy on your citizens from a facility on our soil?

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@revelette2,

Yes. From here.
Known are
a) the US-embassy in Berlin (because to neighbourhood of the Chancellery and ministeries)
b) Wiesbaden Army Airfield shortly (that has been done until today from various other locations, most famously in Frankfurt close to the main post office [because there's the German Commercial Internet Exchange )
(I'd posted photos of those two a couple of months ago)

It is impossible to search both facilities - in Wiesbaden, even the cement comes from the USA ...

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Yes. From here.
Known are
a) the US-embassy in Berlin (because to neighbourhood of the Chancellery and ministeries)
b) Wiesbaden Army Airfield shortly (that has been done until today from various other locations, most famously in Frankfurt close to the main post office [because there's the German Commercial Internet Exchange )
(I'd posted photos of those two a couple of months ago)

It is impossible to search both facilities - in Wiesbaden, even the cement comes from the USA ...

So we spy. And we spy from wherever we can...wherever it is most effective.

I suspect every country does the same thing.

Do you have any reason to suspect otherwise?

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

I suspect every country does the same thing.

Do you have any reason to suspect otherwise?

Thanks to the "Snowden documents", quite a few locations are known.
Do you know any in the USA, where foreign agencies spy on Americans and the US-government?

To answer your questions: yes, many countries do so.
But I didn't suspect that such was done within allied countries. But: look before you leap! We Germans really don't have a good reputation due to our history.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

I suspect every country does the same thing.

Do you have any reason to suspect otherwise?

Thanks to the "Snowden documents", quite a few locations are known.
Do you know any in the USA, where foreign agencies spy on Americans and the US-government?

Nope. You guys have not had your Snowden yet.

Quote:

To answer your questions: yes, many countries do so.

I suspect most counties spy on other countries...and I suspect this is how it has always been. I suspect...some Indian tribes spied on other tribes; some African tribes spy on others; some cave dwellers spied on other cave dwellers.

Quote:

But I didn't suspect that such was done within allied countries.

Okay...you didn't. But with respect, Walter, that was a bit naive of you.

Quote:

But: look before you leap! We Germans really don't have a good reputation due to our history.

I always look before I leap...and I would guess that our intelligence community understands that countries spy on each other...and would not be aghast to find that Germany spies on us. I doubt they would be surprised in any way to discover that several countries are spying on us right this moment...from their embassies in this country.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank: Nope. You guys have not had your Snowden yet.
-------

It's truly telling how many snowdens the USA has had, and obviously needs to rein in such a vast criminal organization.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

I always look before I leap...and I would guess that our intelligence community understands that countries spy on each other...and would not be aghast to find that Germany spies on us. I doubt they would be surprised in any way to discover that several countries are spying on us right this moment...from their embassies in this country.

That will be so, too.
But I'm glad, Frank, to have heard that the US-spying is on us and our government is only done to secure our liberties.

Other countries spy for business reasons, military reasons, expansion, war, or just as a habit.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank, [T]o acknowledge what you do not know, is a display of strength. To pretend you know what you truly don't, is a display of weakness.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Quote:
But I didn't suspect that such was done within allied countries.

Okay...you didn't. But with respect, Walter, that was a bit naive of you.

I've already admitted to be naïve. But I'm in good comapany, I think.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
I always look before I leap...and I would guess that our intelligence community understands that countries spy on each other...and would not be aghast to find that Germany spies on us. I doubt they would be surprised in any way to discover that several countries are spying on us right this moment...from their embassies in this country.

That will be so, too.
But I'm glad, Frank, to have heard that the US-spying is on us and our government is only done to secure our liberties.

Other countries spy for business reasons, military reasons, expansion, war, or just as a habit.

I used the word "only?"

Or did you just add that in order to have your comment make sense?

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

Quote:
But I didn't suspect that such was done within allied countries.

Okay...you didn't. But with respect, Walter, that was a bit naive of you.

I've already admitted to be naïve. But I'm in good comapany, I think.

Not necessary to "admit" to being naive, Walter. That is too loaded a term.

Enough to say you have acknowledged it.

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@Frank Apisa,

You should go for naive, Frank. The alternative doesn't say much for you as a person/human being.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

I used the word "only?"

Or did you just add that in order to have your comment make sense?

Neither. It happened due to a literal translation of colloquial German. (Mostly, I don't think in English but in German.)

But honestly, whatever the reasons are that US-agencies spy on our chancellor, our government, 320 leading persons and normal German citizens' email and phone calls - I really had never before got the idea that by such my liberties can be secured.

But actually, this really avoids that when wake up in the morning, we suddenly live in a Nazi country, a communist state or are governed by terrorists.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

I used the word "only?"

Or did you just add that in order to have your comment make sense?

Neither. It happened due to a literal translation of colloquial German. (Mostly, I don't think in English but in German.)

But honestly, whatever the reasons are that US-agencies spy on our chancellor, our government, 320 leading persons and normal German citizens' email and phone calls - I really had never before got the idea that by such my liberties can be secured.

But actually, this really avoids that when wake up in the morning, we suddenly live in a Nazi country, a communist state or are governed by terrorists.

I don't think you do, Walter.

I think you live in an incredibly beautiful country.

Of course, my feelings in that regard are fashioned by a relatively brief stay in Bavaria...which I hear is one of the most beautiful parts of Germany.

I think all of our freedoms are intact...but that there are dangers right now that require that extreme measures be taken. And part of those extreme measures is intimidating to people who place such a high value on personal privacy.

I am not such a person...so my comments here are influenced by the fact that I am not.

Our technology almost guarantees that personal privacy will be less and less available with each passing day. And that, of course, means that the privacy of countries in general will be less.

We can moan and groan all we want...but the future is already here.

In my opinion, "the best of all possible worlds" will be much, much closer to the world of George Orwell...than the world of the founding fathers of the US.

1 Reply

Snowdon is a dummy

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