Snowdon is a dummy

@Walter Hinteler,

NSA SCANDAL
Who or what can stop the NSA?

Quote:

Snowden's latest revelations show that the National Security Agency has the capacity to store 100 percent of a given nation's phone calls and store them for a month. Is there no other way of preventing terrorist attacks?

Perhaps some officials at NSA headquarters loves playing fantasy role-playing games. The latest spy program to be revealed by the intelligence agency's exiled former contractor Edward Snowden is called MYSTIC, and the cover slide to the leaked documents features a colorful image of a malevolent blue-hatted, white-bearded wizard. His left hand is playing with a ball of magic energy, while his right is gripping a staff - with a cell phone perched on the end of it.

But this MYSTIC seems to be more powerful than all the NSA's other programs uncovered so far - at least in terms of data capacity. According to the Washington Post, which published the documents last week, MYSTIC and its associated tool RETRO is a "voice interception program" that can record "100 percent" of a country's telephone calls, and store them for analysis for a month.

In a sign that he may have decided enough is enough, President Barack Obama has hinted at proposals that could put an end to this data collection frenzy. According to the New York Times on Tuesday, the administration along with the intelligence community have drawn up a plan that would oblige the "NSA to end its systematic collection of data about Americans' calling habits." Under the proposal, which could be presented this Friday, the NSA would need permission from a judge to gain access to specific records.
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@hawkeye10,

Instead of NSA holding on to the data, telecoms would hold onto it for no longer than they are already do and they would have to obtain an court order for each data they want to get access to. Those are some pretty big changes, but phone companies are worried about their customers suing them and they will only do it if they are ordered to and it passes legislation which it is unlikely to do.

read here

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Almost any of you guys would be aghast it legislators took it upon themselves to decide who could or could not obtain specific medical procedures…and how the procedures would be performed if they gave permission.

But you think nothing of allowing legislators to publically decide when and how intelligence information is to be obtained…and how and when it will be used. You advocate for greater transparency in our intelligence operation than already exist.

We live in a very dangerous world, people, and there are people intent on doing us as much harm as possible. Lots of intelligence gathering is needed to prevent that from happening.

You argue that conceding some of our personal privacy is a capitulation that amounts to allowing enemies to win by default.

Yeah, they do want to win. But my guess is they are rooting for your naiveté to prevail, because that “win” will be much the greater win.

This part of the discussion here…this diversion…has, in my opinion, become an insult to common sense.

In any case, Edward Snowden deserves a fair trial to see if the “benefits” you perceive came from his moves mitigate what others see as treason.

I hope he gets that fair trial.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

Almost any of you guys would be aghast it legislators took it upon themselves to decide who could or could not obtain specific medical procedures…and how the procedures would be performed if they gave permission.

Surely there is not a proposal that legislators be in charge of who could or could not obtain specific data?

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@Frank Apisa,

It might well be that Snowden will get a fair trial in some future times.

But he had set of an avalanche ... nearly in every country of the world.

Interesting that you think medical problems to be at the same level as privacy freedom.

I know the differences between health here and there - actually, lawmakers decide such here ... peripherally. But they decide a lot of other stuff as well: who has to pay tolls for motorways, which vehicles are allowed on motorways ...

Quote:

You advocate for greater transparency in our intelligence operation than already exist.

Could you give some examples of the transparency from pre-Snowden times?

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@Walter Hinteler,

I imagine a lot of people think medical issues just as important as privacy issues.

1 Reply

@revelette2,

Well, the privacy about medical issues, of course is an important feature.

Frank wrote:

who could or could not obtain specific medical procedures…

As said, we've got a different health insurance system - and partly, lawmakers really decide who gets what, namely what is paid by the mandatory insurance and what isn't.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

It might well be that Snowden will get a fair trial in some future times.

But he had set of an avalanche ... nearly in every country of the world.

Interesting that you think medical problems to be at the same level as privacy freedom.

I know the differences between health here and there - actually, lawmakers decide such here ... peripherally. But they decide a lot of other stuff as well: who has to pay tolls for motorways, which vehicles are allowed on motorways ...

Quote:
You advocate for greater transparency in our intelligence operation than already exist.

Could you give some examples of the transparency from pre-Snowden times?

Sure...we all knew there was an agency headquartered in Langley Virginia...and its name is the Central Intelligence Agency.

We all knew the Director's name.

We all knew both men and women worked for that agency.

There's three.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Sure...we all knew there was an agency headquartered in Langley Virginia...and its name is the Central Intelligence Agency.

We all knew the Director's name.

We all knew both men and women worked for that agency.

There's three.

See, Frank, you aren't or weren't informed. (It's NSA, btw, and 9800 Savage Road STE 6248, Ft. George G. Meade, MD 20755-6248)

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

Sure...we all knew there was an agency headquartered in Langley Virginia...and its name is the Central Intelligence Agency.

We all knew the Director's name.

We all knew both men and women worked for that agency.

There's three.

See, Frank, you aren't or weren't informed. (It's NSA, btw, and 9800 Savage Road STE 6248, Ft. George G. Meade, MD 20755-6248)

You didn't ask about the NSA...you asked about "transparency."

I am not uninformed...I responded to what you asked.

In order to be effective, there can be very little public transparency for the intelligence community. And the spying it does has to be fairly comprehensive in order to be effective.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank the fascist: In order to be effective, there can be very little public transparency for the intelligence community. And the spying it does has to be fairly comprehensive in order to be effective.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

You didn't ask about the NSA...you asked about "transparency."

Actually, I asked about "transparency pre-Snowden times".

My bad,but I really thought that you would get my question was thread-related.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

It is not as though it was a big secret that NSA was spying before Snowden, we just didn't know the extent or the methods. No one was really clamoring to know that I am aware of.

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@revelette2,

Well, already in 2005 there was a New York Times story about the NSA's Bush-era warrantless wiretapping program.

And Thomas Drake was indicted in 2010 under the Espionage Act after publicly revealing that a secret NSA data collection program might be snooping illegally on Americans.

1 Reply

@revelette2,

Rev: No one was really clamoring to know that I am aware of.
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Baaaaa baa baaaaaaaa ...

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Obviously there is never going to be meeting of the minds on this.

Some people consider what Snowden did to be heroic...and some consider it traitorous. I do not consider it either way...he is not, in my opinion, a hero or a traitor.

I think he is a misguided individual who overstepped.

I think he broke important laws...but I understand and acknowledge that in our society, that is something that has to be proven in a trial in order for him to face any punishment.

I would love to see him tried.

As for the spying...any reasonable reading of history tells us that spying has been going on since we became "civilized"...and most likely will continue.

The question of us spying on ourselves resolves itself (for me) in recognizing that we have one of the most diverse societies ever on this planet...and plenty of stuff goes on here in our country intended to aid people from the outside to harm us. The spying on "us" makes sense to me.

I certainly think ANY reasonable government on this planet with the capability of spying on us...should be doing so. We should be doing everything in our power to prevent it...BUT THEY SHOULD BE DOING SO.

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@Frank Apisa,

The President confirms the plans to end NSA bulk telephone collection, and admits revelations have shaken faith in US intelligence

Obama: US must 'win back the trust of ordinary citizens' over data collection

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

The President confirms the plans to end NSA bulk telephone collection, and admits revelations have shaken faith in US intelligence

Obama: US must 'win back the trust of ordinary citizens' over data collection

Yup.

It must be true, because no American politician would ever lie. And especially considering it is about the intelligence community.

They would never do anything clandestine.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank: Obviously there is never going to be meeting of the minds on this.
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Same on the issues of grammar and the English language, Frank. You were out to lunch there too. You can't meet a mind that grips, vise like, abysmal ignorance.

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@Walter Hinteler,

That's what I mean, when after the warrantless wiretapping was discontinued in 2007 I think it was, the whole spying issue just kind of faded out of the interest in the media and people in general, other than of course those who have been strongly against it from the get go. The dramatic way in which Snowden hopped on a plane and then gave his stolen documents to those he gave it, was bound to be a big story and then the revelations revealed made it so that the government had to do something about it.

I am not going to get into the whole issue of whether the information justified the illegal act because I have stated my opinion on it and I haven't changed my mind. I will concede that Snowden has forced the issue out in the open by revealing the sheer extent of the spying and has forced changes.

1 Reply

Snowdon is a dummy

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