42
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Mon 24 Feb, 2014 03:47 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

Back to Snowden, though...
You don't seem to get it:


That may be the problem, Walter...I think I do get it...and that you don't. We have differing opinions on this. In fact, there are all sorts of opinions...from all sorts of people. There is no unanimity...and probably no side is totally "right" or "wrong." What we do is to share our opinions!

Quote:
...if Snowden hadn't done what he did (and the international nwspapers published his documents) we - and you (sic!) - would never have known ALL (sic!) those facts ...


What makes you so sure you KNOW ALL THE FACTS NOW, Walter, I do not think we do...and I am of the opinion that many of the facts might support my position in this...not yours. I think our intelligence agencies have their hands tied, because to protest some of the revelations would be to further compromise intelligence activities.

But go on thinking you know the facts because of what Snowden allegedly did.

Quote:
You have to excuse me, Frank, but I don't respond to the other parts in post - I've missed the lessons how to reply to such while playing in the kindergarten's sandbox.


Reply to what you want, Walter...and consider anything you want to be "kindergarten sandbox"...as kindergarten sandbox.

I will continue to try to treat your considerations seriously.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Mon 24 Feb, 2014 03:51 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

He have no moral obligation to subject himself to the judgement of the current US government any more then a conductor of an underground railroad station had the moral obligation to turn himself into the government of any of the southern states.


No, he doesn't. He can keep hiding for as long as he likes.

Quote:
footnote: after the Lincoln Assassination the US government round up everyone with any connection to Booth including the landlady of the boarding house Booth was staying at and gave them a "fair" trial and hung them all.


And????

Quote:
The landlady son was also charge with the same charges as his mother but he ran to the Canadian border and did not get drag back to the US until 1866


And????

Quote:
After turning himself in after the emotions had died down he was found innocent of all charges and live out his remaining life in peace.


Maybe that is what will happen with your "hero."



Quote:
Hopefully Snowden can some day return to the US and get a "fair" trial but now is not the time any more then it was for John Surratt as if he had done so he would had hung right by his mother.




I won't pretend that I know what would have happened. But I do know this is not the 19th century...it is now.

And Snowden is charged with some serious crimes...and I want very much for him to get a fair trial.

You apparently don't.
JTT
 
  1  
Mon 24 Feb, 2014 03:54 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank: I know what I'd do if I were in that situation.

Me too, Frank. You'd have fled to Sicily.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Mon 24 Feb, 2014 03:58 pm
@Olivier5,
I call you Romeo because you could be his sock puppet, albeit a slightly brainier one.

Still unable to actually describe a golden USA moment, O. One with facts.

Not to worry. The good folks of A2K haven't been able to do so either.
JTT
 
  1  
Mon 24 Feb, 2014 04:01 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank: At least I have the spine to address remarks to the people for whom I intend them...rather than the cowardly way you do things.

Frank, oh Frank!! Can you hear me? Could you expand on how you have spine?

I don't think frank can hear me. I wonder why.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Mon 24 Feb, 2014 04:03 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank: At least I have the spine to address remarks to the people for whom I intend them...rather than the cowardly way you do things.

As Frank discusses CI, Spendi, me, ... with MiT or Rev or ... .
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Mon 24 Feb, 2014 04:07 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
I won't pretend that I know what would have happened. But I do know this is not the 19th century...it is now.

And Snowden is charged with some serious crimes...and I want very much for him to get a fair trial.

You apparently don't.


Human nature have not change in the last hundred and fifty years or so that I am aware of.

There is no moral right to think he should stand trial until and if the government also charge members of their own executive branch for the crimes that Snowden was brave enough to exposed.

Kind of amusing to see a gentleman that we all know had lied to congress still holding his position and testifying in front of congress again on C-Span.
spendius
 
  2  
Mon 24 Feb, 2014 04:17 pm
@JPB,
Quote:
Long, but very interesting, expose on 'the deep state' by a former congressional staffer.


Yes JT--quite interesting. A bit old hat but still interesting. It begs rather a lot of questions too.

With Putin throwing life-lines and providing running room there's a hint of a High State to which all the same considerations apply. How members of the High State qualify being on no concern. Being in charge is decisive.

Huxley's World Controllers. Which is old hat too.

Did you not mind the "..." and the colour scheme?
JTT
 
  1  
Mon 24 Feb, 2014 04:19 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank: But the only way to find out is to face trial...

Or maybe, just maybe, have those government of the people by the people for the people people actually act on the propagandist spiels they so adore.

How come the people of the Ukraine can do it?

How come the people living under USA brutal dictators can do it but the folks of the land of the brave are too frightened by make believe boogeyman to hold their government to the much mouthed principles that came from the founding dads?
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Mon 24 Feb, 2014 04:25 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
I won't pretend that I know what would have happened. But I do know this is not the 19th century...it is now.

And Snowden is charged with some serious crimes...and I want very much for him to get a fair trial.

You apparently don't.


Human nature have not change in the last hundred and fifty years or so that I am aware of.


Things have changed a lot during the last 150 years...and would be surprised if there are not aspects of human nature that have not.

Quote:
There is no moral right to think he should stand trial until and if the government also charge members of their own executive branch for the crimes that Snowden was brave enough to exposed.


I have no idea of how you make the connection...except that you have your notions of him being a hero set in concrete.

Me...I am still willing to leave it to a jury...and I am not willing yet to suppose my country has fallen so far that we cannot even trust the ordinary person who will make up the jury.

But some people (apparently you, for instance) cannot think of enough negative things to say about the American people and its government.

Quote:
Kind of amusing to see a gentleman that we all know had lied to congress still holding his position and testifying in front of congress again on C-Span.


I'll take your word for that. Please enjoy it.
spendius
 
  1  
Mon 24 Feb, 2014 04:29 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
..rather than the cowardly way you do things.


How's that MiT for your Mr Nice Guy?

Why don't you reply to some of my posts Apisa. And don't give me that shite about me not respecting you. There's nothing to respect.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Mon 24 Feb, 2014 04:29 pm
@JTT,
LOL... You're just another hater with a big mouth, JTT. Sad that our side of the debate be tarnished by you, but then the other side has Frank so we're even... Smile
Olivier5
 
  1  
Mon 24 Feb, 2014 04:33 pm
@Frank Apisa,
The reason I don't usually post to you has nothing to do with your lack of spine. It is just that you can't hear what people try and tell you. Posting to you is an exercise in futility.
BillRM
 
  1  
Mon 24 Feb, 2014 04:37 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Things have changed a lot during the last 150 years...and would be surprised if there are not aspects of human nature that have not.


Sorry evolution does not work on that tinny time scale unless you are talking about fruit flies

Quote:
Me...I am still willing to leave it to a jury...and I am not willing yet to suppose my country has fallen so far that we cannot even trust the ordinary person who will make up the jury.


Too many people are like you who think that the government is god and can not be question to trust that the government will made such an error as to allow free thinkers onto a jury.

An Snowden once more is under no moral obligation to subject himself to a trial by the current corrupt government.
JTT
 
  1  
Mon 24 Feb, 2014 04:38 pm
@spendius,
Spendi: yes JT.

No, "Yes, JPB".
JTT
 
  1  
Mon 24 Feb, 2014 04:45 pm
@Olivier5,
Still not able to provide one itsy bitsy teeney weeny instance, Olivier. What do you consider your "side of the debate" - the one that makes excuses for war criminals and terrorists - all based on a dismal knowledge of history?

That IS Frank Apisa in a nutshell.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Mon 24 Feb, 2014 04:59 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

The reason I don't usually post to you has nothing to do with your lack of spine. It is just that you can't hear what people try and tell you. Posting to you is an exercise in futility.


Yeah, Olivier...I think it does have to do with your lack of spine.

I have many things to say; I say them clearly; and they usually make plenty of sense...except for people who are not looking for that in a posting.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Mon 24 Feb, 2014 05:02 pm
@JPB,
Quote:
Long, but very interesting, expose on 'the deep state' by a former congressional staffer. I'm still reading…

Jee... I though "deep state" was an Egyptian expression to describe the permanence of an authoritarian state in spite of whatever minor changes happen at the top...

It suits the present state of the US perfectly. The president is purely decorative.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Mon 24 Feb, 2014 05:03 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
Things have changed a lot during the last 150 years...and would be surprised if there are not aspects of human nature that have not.


Sorry evolution does not work on that tinny time scale unless you are talking about fruit flies


Please...don't start with philosophy or science. Things have changed in the last 150 years...and I understand that you are unable to see that.

Quote:
Quote:
Me...I am still willing to leave it to a jury...and I am not willing yet to suppose my country has fallen so far that we cannot even trust the ordinary person who will make up the jury.


Too many people are like you who think that the government is god and can not be question to trust that the government will made such an error as to allow free thinkers onto a jury.


I do not think the government is a god...nor do I think it cannot be questioned. But I am not willing to show the scorn and contempt you show for America, its people and its government.

You are free to do so, of course. It is a free country.

Quote:
An Snowden once more is under no moral obligation to subject himself to a trial by the current corrupt government.



I said he can stay in exile.

Can you post anything without showing how much contempt your have for America?
Olivier5
 
  2  
Mon 24 Feb, 2014 05:04 pm
@Frank Apisa,
You? Naaaah!

You have usually a coupe of ideas per month. And you repeat them ad nauseam. As if everybody else was in their second childhood too...
 

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