Snowdon is a dummy

@Olivier5,

Saying someone is dissing on America continually is not saying they are anti-America. It just says that they keep carping on America as though American (or the government of America) is just horrible through and through right now and can do no right at all. I mean by all means talk about the vast spying and other actions our government is doing. I hope there is some improvements made in that regard myself. But some here act as the government just is out to get people and have no good intentions behind their actions, however wrong headed said action may be. That's what I mean by dissing on America, not talking about policies and methods that America does but its reason for doing it. (I wish I could word it better...) Furthermore, I don't think everyone here goes to that extreme who is really upset about this NSA business.

CI just annoys me by his constantly acting as though everyone else who disagrees with him "don't understand." He also has got unnecessarily rough to me so I put on ignore. He calls it calling a spade a spade, however, not only is it rude, but often he calls a regular old shovel a spade.

I think Frank and others like him (me) just look at some of this spying business as a necessary evil, however, in a lot of cases, I agree, it seems that the NSA needs to be reigned in and ,mostly when it comes to how
they use the information they get. At least so far that is my assessment. Also, this comes into another problem on this thread. Rather than getting a difference of opinion on this issue, it seems that we get back insults. So Frank has started to respond in kind (as he put it) I am simply pointing out how old it is getting. All this back and forth.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Well, however it comes about, it is still a good thing to be open about it.

1 Reply

@revelette2,

Indeed.

On March 12, 2013, before the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, Clapper was asked directly by Sen. Ron Wyden, a Democrat from Oregon: “Does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?” At the time Clapper responded, “No sir.” Wyden then asked, “they do not?” Clapper responded, “Not wittingly. There are cases where they could inadvertently, perhaps collect, but not wittingly.”
(Source: Daily Beast report, link in the Guardian report above)

1 Reply

@revelette2,

You're wrong! My position is open to challenge as is everybody else's post/opinion.

That you believe spying on Americans is a "necessary evil" just proves you know very little about the laws of our land and the Constitution.

If I annoy you, that's because of your ignorance about our laws. I can't help that! It's not about "reigning in," it's about stopping what they are doing.

I don't wish to pay taxes for a government that ignores the Constitution by spying on me!

1 Reply

@revelette2,

Quote:

But some here act as the government just is out to get people and have no good intentions behind their actions, however wrong headed said action may be.

I am sure that when Hoover created his blackmail files on presidents and congressmen and other movers and shakers and even when he try to get King to commit suicide he have good intentions in his own mind.

Good intentions or not this kind of massive spying on US citizens place the Republic at one of the greatest risks it have ever face.

Every nation need an intelligence community but it need to be under very tight control and limit in it scope as otherwise it will turn from being an asset to a danger to any free society.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

I have visited Russia twice, and enjoyed myself tremendously; what has that got to do with where I live?

Too bad you didn't stay there.

Quote:

Your idea about being a good American citizen is lost in your blindness for what our Constitution is all about.

I have as much knowledge of what our Constitution is all about as you, ci. Why must you get into this "ignorance" stuff with everyone with whom you disagree?

Quote:

You're the one who's lost in your "guesses;" mostly wrong headed and without much knowledge about Americanism.

I have every bit as much knowledge as "Americanism" as you, ci? Why must you constantly downgrade the knowledge and understanding of people who disagree with you?

Quote:

In this country, we are free to speak our minds about what our government does wrong without fear of any consequence.

And I do that often. So???

Quote:

You've forgotten this simple concept about our country.

Not sure why you think I have forgotten it...but I suspect it is because your arguments are so thin, you almost always resort to this kind of nonsense.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
I cannot understand why you don't join Snowden in Russia...where you can have real freedom.

Perhaps c.i. knows better than you do, Frank, about restrictions for asylum seekers .... not only in Russia, by the way! (Besides that: what do you suggest, c.i. could use as a reason for seeking asylum?)

No reason for ci to seek asylum, Walter...nor did I suggest that. He could emigrate to Russia. They might allow him in. He could write about how much more freedom he and Snowden were enjoying now that they were in a free country.

Quote:

Oh, and perhaps you read what the security boss said .... who now acknowledged until now (sic!) that the initial secrecy surrounding the program was ill-considered.

Okay...so why doesn't Snowden come back and use that as a defense! Wink

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

You're wrong! My position is open to challenge as is everybody else's post/opinion.

That you believe spying on Americans is a "necessary evil" just proves you know very little about the laws of our land and the Constitution.

Can't you ever address anything without calling the person with whom you disagree...uninformed or stupid, ci?

Quote:

If I annoy you, that's because of your ignorance about our laws. I can't help that! It's not about "reigning in," it's about stopping what they are doing.

I don't wish to pay taxes for a government that ignores the Constitution by spying on me!

It has nothing to do with ignorance or being uninformed, ci. Get it through your head!

And there are a lot of people who don't wish to pay taxes for a variety of reasons. So don't pay them. What's the worst they can do...besides put you into prison.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Quote:
But some here act as the government just is out to get people and have no good intentions behind their actions, however wrong headed said action may be.

I am sure that when Hoover created his blackmail files on presidents and congressmen and other movers and shakers and even when he try to get King to commit suicide he have good intentions in his own mind.

Good intentions or not this kind of massive spying on US citizens place the Republic at one of the greatest risks it have ever face.

Every nation need an intelligence community but it need to be under very tight control and limit in it scope as otherwise it will turn from being an asset to a danger to any free society.

Same thing could be said about freedom of speech, but I still defend freedom of speech.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

No reason for ci to seek asylum, Walter...nor did I suggest that.

Actually, you did

when you wrote:

I cannot understand why you don't join Snowden in Russia...where you can have real freedom.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Okay...so why doesn't Snowden come back and use that as a defense!

Perhaps his lawyers will respond that question

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
No reason for ci to seek asylum, Walter...nor did I suggest that.

Actually, you did

No, Walter, I most assuredly did not.

Quote:

when you wrote:
I cannot understand why you don't join Snowden in Russia...where you can have real freedom.

That is NOT asking ci to seek asylum. He has committed no crime that I know of, Walter. I answered that earlier. He could simply ask to move there...since he is so dissatisfied with our government.

People move from country to country all the time...without it being a chase of "seeking asylum."

Surely you know that.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
Okay...so why doesn't Snowden come back and use that as a defense!

Perhaps his lawyers will respond that question

Perhaps.

It would delight me if they realized that would be an element of defense...and advised Snowden to return to the US for trial...and to complete his mission to help correct what is going on.

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@Walter Hinteler,

I know, I got to admit, I don't understand why he hasn't been fired or more hasn't been made of him just flat out lying to congress. Why haven't they dragged him back and asked him why he lied? Or have they?

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@Frank Apisa,

Why would anyone consider moving to another country because they are dissatisfied with their government in any democracy?

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

This is but another of Frank's ploys; say something that most people understand as one thing, then change the meaning later on to fit his own definition.

Snowden is in Russia for asylum. Frank's suggestion that I join Snowden has to mean the same thing.

However, since Frank is only guessing, nobody really knows what he means - even himself!

1 Reply

@BillRM,

I won't get into that bit about Hoover, but just for the sake of the argument, lets say you are right, there is a deal of difference than creating blackmail files and collecting data in the hopes of catching a link to would be terrorist. The fact that some employees or whatever might abuse the information they have access to does not mean that the intentions of data collection is to create blackmail list.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Why would anyone consider moving to another country because they are dissatisfied with their government in any democracy?

Lots of people have done it. You'd have to ask one of them.

In any case, you sound as though you hate it here so much...and since I like you...I thought I would recommend one way to get away from it all, so to speak.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

That's because they have the "freedom of choice." It's not about your isolated ideas. That's why it's called a "democracy."

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

This is but another of Frank's ploys; say something that most people understand as one thing, then change the meaning later on to fit his own definition.

There was absolutely no changing of meaning on my part at all. I simply said you should join Snowden inRussia. There was no indication of me suggesting you ask for asylum....and I cannot think of any reason for you to do so.

Quote:

Snowden is in Russia for asylum. Frank's suggestion that I join Snowden has to mean the same thing.

Not to anyone who has an understanding of the English language. I did NOT under any circumstances suggest that you seek asylum...and I cannot think of any reason for you doing so. But, you guys apparently are so intent on "making me wrong"...that you are creating a straw man.

I like that. It means my actual arguments are too much for you...and you would prefer to invent ones and pretend that they are mind...so you have something to argue against.

Quote:

However, since Frank is only guessing, nobody really knows what he means - even himself!

Not sure what that is all about...but I suspect it is frustration with you constantly crashing and burning in discussions with me, ci.

Hope you feel better soon. An extended trip to Russia might help. Wink

0 Replies

Snowdon is a dummy

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