Snowdon is a dummy

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

I know, Frank, it's stupid to think, our secret services wouldn't do it already - but here's a report by the Independent

Quote:
Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany has announced plans to set up a European communications network as part of a broad counter-espionage offensive designed to curb mass surveillance conducted by the US National Security Agency and its British counterpart, GCHQ.

The move is her government’s first tangible response to public and political indignation over NSA and GCHQ spying in Europe, which was exposed last October with revelations that the US had bugged Ms Merkel’s mobile phone and that MI6 operated a listening post from the British Embassy in Berlin.
[...]
French government officials responded by saying Paris intended to “take up” the German initiative.

Ms Merkel’s proposals appear to be part of a wider German counter-espionage offensive, reported to be under way in several of Germany’s intelligence agencies, against NSA and GCHQ surveillance.
... ... ...

I hope (and expect) they do spy against us...it is the smart thing for them to do.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Yea, according to Frank we're all America haters. Such a broad brush that he paints with! TNCFS

You scorn America and its government, ci.

You should try somewhere else to live...somewhere more to your liking.

Maybe Mars!

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Why would I do that Frank? Because you know nothing about me! I've been fortunate having been born and raised in the US (FYI, third generation American). It provided me and my family with a pretty good standard of living. I've been retired since 1998, and have traveled around the world equivalent to 30 times - having visited over 200 countries. I've seen most of this planet - the good and the bad, and as an American have served my country in the USAF, served on the Santa Clara County Grand Jury for one year, and live a pretty healthy and active life.

Why in the world would I hate America?

It's because like most things, you speak from ignorance - and guessing.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Bravo! Let's screw them. Any embassy staff caught spying or operating spying equipment should also be jailed for a couple of decades. They evidently understand no other language.

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@Frank Apisa,

Thanks for the laugh.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Why would I do that Frank?

I doubt you would, ci. I think you would rather stay here and groan and moan...and express contempt for the American government.

Quote:

Because you know nothing about me!

I know you are a chronic complainer...and someone who shows scorn for our government.

Quote:

I've been fortunate having been born and raised in the US (FYI, third generation American). It provided me and my family with a pretty good standard of living. I've been retired since 1998, and have traveled around the world equivalent to 30 times - having visited over 200 countries. I've seen most of this planet - the good and the bad, and as an American have served my country in the USAF, served on the Santa Clara County Grand Jury for one year, and live a pretty healthy and active life.

That is terrific...and although I have not been as fortunate as you in travel...our lives have not been markedly different.

Quote:

Why in the world would I hate America?

I have absolutely no idea...and I suggest you do some soul searching to see why you display so many of the character traits that go with the kind of hatred and scorn I see you displaying toward this country and its government.

Quote:

It's because like most things, you speak from ignorance - and guessing.

No, I do not speak from ignorance...although I will acknowledge that it is a guess. But it is a guess based on what I see you write day after day in this forum...and I do not see it as an unreasonable guesss.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Thanks for the laugh.

No problem. You provide with a world of laughs...glad I was able to reciprocate. (Jeez, I hope you didn't use that word recently, or I will probably be accused by you of stealing it from you.)

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All this dissing of America(ns) is getting old, but then so is the counter charge of hating the government or America(ns.) (sorry Frank) I don't think either side is going to change their stances. What say, we move on?

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@revelette2,

revelette2 wrote:

All this dissing of America(ns) is getting old, but then so is the counter charge of hating the government or America(ns.) (sorry Frank) I don't think either side is going to change their stances. What say, we move on?

ci makes frequent personal comments about me...and I am returning them in kind.

I totally willing to stick to the subject:

I think Snowden is not a dummy.

I tjhink Snowden is not a traitor.

I do think is by not means whatever a hero.

It appears that Snowden did steal classified government documents...or at least, that seems to be what he is saying he did.

He is charged with stealing classified government documents and releasing them to unauthorized parties.

It is my opinion that he should stand trial on these charges...and bring forth the any defense he can muster...and a jury should decide his fate. If found not guilty...he goes free; if found guilty, he is subject to the penalties.

He has been granted asylum in Russia...and as long as they allow him that asylum, he is free to avail himself of it.

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@revelette2,

This is not about anti Americanism. I don't think Bill or CI, who are Americans, hate America, so the charge is a red hearing.

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@Frank Apisa,

I agree with most of what you say, we know that others do not. Until or if Snowden's ever comes back, or there is new information coming out concerning him, I guess, there is not much left to say. Probably why all the side talk.

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@Olivier5,

I do not know if they hate America, never said they did. I said dissing on America or Americans. It's a popular sport nowadays. Real easy to be on the side, a little harder to try and be balanced.

As for me, I simply think what Snowden did was wrong, even if what he did exposed things we needed to know. To me it is as simple as that.

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@revelette2,

Sure, just like dissing on the French or the Brits is fashionable... But I repeat: Bill and CI and half of the US are pissed off at their own government, not dissing America for the fun of it... That much should be clear to anyone of good faith.

If Snowden revealed something the public needed to know, he did something good...

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

My post keeps messing up, driving me up the wall. Maybe I can get it posted this time.

Anyway...

With some I agree with you, with others I do not, they display too much extremism and paranoia. I haven't looked at the polls, so don't really know. Last I looked it was pretty well divided the way everything is, with independents and republicans against, and democrats not so much. It was the opposite when Bush was in office. Regular politics I guess.

I do not think Snowden did a good thing even if he exposed things some people think we needed to know. Not only did he do it in a sneaky fashion, but in a reckless fashion putting people in harms way according to some reports and we really don't know all the harm he could have done. I know you and others disagree, fine.

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@revelette2,

Quote:

As for me, I simply think what Snowden did was wrong, even if what he did exposed things we needed to know. To me it is as simple as that.

As an American of 65 years it is my opinion that unlike the executive branch of my government under a number of administrations Snowden have done a great service to my nation and to the world.

I can only hope that in his place I would have been brave enough to throw away my life in the service of my nation and the constitution of my country.

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@Frank Apisa,

You wrote,

Quote:

ci makes frequent personal comments about me...and I am returning them in kind.

Far from being "in kind," but you wouldn't understand those simple concepts.

You also wouldn't understand that the very people who are supposed to protect us, our government, are breaking laws. They're the ones who needs to be charged with a crime and taken to a court of law. It's called the Constitution of the US.

AFTER THAT HAPPENS, I'll agree that Snowden can return to the US to face his accusers.

This would be the PROPER SEQUENCE if you believe in the fairness of our laws and court system.

1 Reply

@revelette2,

Quote:

It was the opposite when Bush was in office.

And some Bush supporters were accusing those who disliked Bush's policies of anti Americanism. Same cheap BS...

Quote:

Not only did he do it in a sneaky fashion, but in a reckless fashion putting people in harms way

Who specifically did he put in harm's way? This is an empty accusation, with no proof whatsoever. And they was no other way to do it.

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@Olivier5,

They try to rationalize their position with lies and innuendos. They're blind to their own lies.

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@cicerone imposter,

Yes, their position is very weak. I wonder how some of them would have reacted if the same scandal had erupted under Bush rather than under Obama...

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@Olivier5,

Probably there would have been opposite responses to some partisan people on the Snowden issue. Could have been me, for instances when I was so caught up in the Iraq war issue.

However, oddly enough, while there are some politicians who seem to be playing politics, there have been some bi-partisan agreement on the Snowden issue. Some while they don't agree with vast data collecting, do not condone Snowden. For instance:

Snowden leaks severely hurt U.S. security, two House members say

Quote:

WASHINGTON — A classified Pentagon report concludes that leaks by former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden have set back U.S. efforts against terrorism, cybercrime, human trafficking and weapons proliferation, leaders of the House Intelligence Committee say.

A damage assessment by the Defense Intelligence Agency indicates most of the estimated 1.7 million classified documents that officials say Snowden copied from NSA computers involve U.S. military operations, said committee Chairman Mike D. Rogers (R-Mich.) and the ranking Democrat, Rep. C.A. Dutch Ruppersberger of Maryland.

More at the source

2 Replies

Snowdon is a dummy

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