Snowdon is a dummy

@cicerone imposter,

I don't know the facts about international law (Germany certainly lost some cases in Strasbourg and Den Haag or at the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea in Hamburg), but since our government only could break constitutional law - that did happen but had to be corrected after rulings of the court.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

On a second thought: certainly they "broke" the law: all lost cases e.g. about federal taxes at financial courts are proof for such, or at administrative law courts, when federal offices/departments are involved, same at social law courts, or at labour courts.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

There may not be a "solution", Izzy...but doing what they are doing is at least making an attempt. You may disagree with the attempt...but some fine minds agree...so maybe they are correct.

Mass data collection isn't about spotting terrorists, it's about crowd control. It's about using potentially embarrassing information to coerce people into doing things. It didn't work so well with East Germany.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

BINGO!

In future Frank could we skip the part where you get me to state the flaming obvious?

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

Mass data collection isn't about spotting terrorists, it's about crowd control. It's about using potentially embarrassing information to coerce people into doing things. It didn't work so well with East Germany.

I really think that's the main reason, why the German public so fiercely opposes this, after 12 years experiences with the Gestapo and 40 years with the Stasi ...

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
There may not be a "solution", Izzy...but doing what they are doing is at least making an attempt. You may disagree with the attempt...but some fine minds agree...so maybe they are correct.

Mass data collection isn't about spotting terrorists, it's about crowd control. It's about using potentially embarrassing information to coerce people into doing things. It didn't work so well with East Germany.

You certainly are entitled to that interpretation of what it is...just as I am entitled to think your interpretation to be faulty.

I do think your interpretation to be faulty.

I think the government is making a valid attempt to forstall any more intrusions...and that is going to involve some moves that will seem inappropriate to personal freedom purists.

I think that the intrusions of today will seem tame when compared with the intrustion I see as almost inevitable.

3 Replies

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

BINGO!

In future Frank could we skip the part where you get me to state the flaming obvious?

I'll meet you half way on this, Izzy...if you will meet me half way in return.

I promise I will stop forcing you to state what you term "the flaming obvious."

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

I think the government is making a valid attempt to forstall any more intrusions...and that is going to involve some moves that will seem inappropriate to personal freedom purists.

You do know, Frank, that you are nearly quoting the general secretary of the Socialist Unity Party of Germany and chairman of the State Council of the GDR, Walter Ulbricht, literally?

And more correctly, he also said: "It has to look democratic, but we must have everything in our hand."

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

I think the government is making a valid attempt to forstall any more intrusions...and that is going to involve some moves that will seem inappropriate to personal freedom purists.

You do know, Frank, that you are nearly quoting the general secretary of the Socialist Unity Party of Germany and chairman of the State Council of the GDR, Walter Ulbricht, literally?

And more correctly, he also said: "It has to look democratic, but we must have everything in our hand."

I do not know that, Walter...but I would be interested in why you thought it interesting to point that out?

What does that mean to you?

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Because that's how the GDR (and before the Nazis) explained, why they had to collect data ... it was all just for the citizens, to get them a save life and to protect them from the bad enemies ...

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@Frank Apisa,

I think your interpretation is faulty. It relies too much on the good faith of the security services.

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@izzythepush,

I think that there's a reason why "secret services" aren't called "security services" Wink

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@Walter Hinteler,

I think that any citizen who thinks his country is without sin, dosent break any of its laws, is a fool. I dont trust my government any farther than I can throw Texas.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Because that's how the GDR (and before the Nazis) explained, why they had to collect data ... it was all just for the citizens, to get them a save life and to protect them from the bad enemies ...

C'mon, Walter. You guys have had some bad times with your government...and now you seem to be trusting them more than is wise.

I am not accepting the governments explanations for why they are doing some of the things they are doing...I am part of the chorus demanding that they do it.

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

I think your interpretation is faulty. It relies too much on the good faith of the security services.

Understood.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

I think that the intrusions of today will seem tame when compared with the intrustion I see as almost inevitable.

Even a bad propagandist could think of a better euphemism.

Do you envision an "intrusion" that comes remotely close in size or severity to the thousands of "intrusions" US terrorists have already, by a century, "intruded" on so may other countries, Frank?

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@RABEL222,

Would that be about ten yards in Texas' measurement? LOL

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

Quote:
.I am part of the chorus demanding that they do it.

You can't expect a lot of sense from a guy who verily rejoices in his governments' rape, torture, murder, ... of other peoples.

You gotta remember who this guy's boss was - one of the biggest war criminals of WWII.

bob bob bob

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@cicerone imposter,

Yep!

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@JTT,

JTT wrote:

Quote:
I think that the intrusions of today will seem tame when compared with the intrustion I see as almost inevitable.

Even a bad propagandist could think of a better euphemism.

Do you envision an "intrusion" that comes remotely close in size or severity to the thousands of "intrusions" US terrorists have already, by a century, "intruded" on so may other countries, Frank?

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/funny/1/vomit.gif

1 Reply

Snowdon is a dummy

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