42
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Sun 9 Feb, 2014 02:52 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Sympathy has nothing to do with this "legal" issue against our government.


There is a thing call jury nullification where sympathy can come into play whether the government or the judge like it or not.
JTT
 
  0  
Sun 9 Feb, 2014 03:44 pm
@BillRM,

Bradley Manning's treatment was cruel and inhuman, UN torture chief rules

UN special rapporteur on torture's findings likely to reignite criticism of US government's treatment of WikiLeaks suspect
Monday 12 March 2012 13.41 GMT

The UN special rapporteur on torture has formally accused the US government of cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment towards Bradley Manning, the US soldier who was held in solitary confinement for almost a year on suspicion of being the WikiLeaks source.

...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/mar/12/bradley-manning-cruel-inhuman-treatment-un
izzythepush
 
  1  
Sun 9 Feb, 2014 03:47 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:



He can get a fair trial right now...with the laws that are currently operative.


No he can't.
spendius
 
  1  
Sun 9 Feb, 2014 03:56 pm
@izzythepush,
He "can" izzy. But he won't be allowed to.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Sun 9 Feb, 2014 05:20 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:



He can get a fair trial right now...with the laws that are currently operative.


No he can't.


Yes, Izzy...he can!
JTT
 
  0  
Sun 9 Feb, 2014 05:27 pm
@spendius,
Has frank got you on ignore, Spendi?
JTT
 
  0  
Sun 9 Feb, 2014 05:31 pm
@Frank Apisa,
No no no no, frank. That was your cue to say to Izzy,

You are entitled to your opinion and i respect your opinion but I disagree.

You are getting your rote memes all mixed up.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  3  
Sun 9 Feb, 2014 06:03 pm
@Frank Apisa,
You can't even convince your fellow Americans of that.
spendius
 
  1  
Sun 9 Feb, 2014 06:05 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
Has frank got you on ignore, Spendi?


I can't be sure. It looks like it though.

Maybe his educators had not thought fit to introduce him to Proust's analysis of Ignore which can be read on page 23 of his masterpiece as it relates to "ladies of lofty aspirations" whose "receptive organs" were voluntarily put "into abeyance to the point of actually becoming atrophied".

Maybe the attempt to teach him the 7 times table had put them off trying anything fancy and he was going to pass with flying colours anyway to raise, or at least uphold, the prestige of the establishment no matter what the obstacles.

0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Sun 9 Feb, 2014 06:55 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

You can't even convince your fellow Americans of that.


There are haters of America and its government in places outside of America...but it is almost a cottage industry here.

Nothing to be done about that. Complainers and moaners are a dime a dozen.
JTT
 
  0  
Sun 9 Feb, 2014 06:58 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Duck!!! The memes are coming fast and thick.

Frank is turning repuglican I really think so!
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  2  
Sun 9 Feb, 2014 07:09 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Pelton, Pollard, Hanson got fair trials and were convicted of espionage. Thomas Drake got indicted for his whistle blowing disclosures (not the ones thru proper channels) to the press. What makes anybody think he can't get a fair trial? What, because the folks he duped think he shouldn't be charged?
JTT
 
  -1  
Sun 9 Feb, 2014 07:21 pm
@glitterbag,
Why would anyone in their right mind believe a rank apologist for war criminals like glitterbag? She has her whole life invested in covering up the crimes of various and sundry USA governments.

---------------
http://www.ellsberg.net/archive/edward-snowden


Edward Snowden: Saving Us from the United Stasi of America
by DANIEL ELLSBERG on JUNE 10, 2013
My opinion piece in the Guardian today:

In my estimation, there has not been in American history a more important leak than Edward Snowden’s release of NSA material – and that definitely includes the Pentagon Papers 40 years ago. Snowden’s whistleblowing gives us the possibility to roll back a key part of what has amounted to an “executive coup” against the US constitution.

Since 9/11, there has been, at first secretly but increasingly openly, a revocation of the bill of rights for which this country fought over 200 years ago. In particular, the fourth and fifth amendments of the US constitution, which safeguard citizens from unwarranted intrusion by the government into their private lives, have been virtually suspended.

The government claims it has a court warrant under Fisa – but that unconstitutionally sweeping warrant is from a secret court, shielded from effective oversight, almost totally deferential to executive requests. As Russell Tice, a former National Security Agency analyst, put it: “It is a kangaroo court with a rubber stamp.”

For the president then to say that there is judicial oversight is nonsense – as is the alleged oversight function of the intelligence committees in Congress. Not for the first time – as with issues of torture, kidnapping, detention, assassination by drones and death squads –they have shown themselves to be thoroughly co-opted by the agencies they supposedly monitor. They are also black holes for information that the public needs to know.

The fact that congressional leaders were “briefed” on this and went along with it, without any open debate, hearings, staff analysis, or any real chance for effective dissent, only shows how broken the system of checks and balances is in this country.

Obviously, the United States is not now a police state. But given the extent of this invasion of people’s privacy, we do have the full electronic and legislative infrastructure of such a state. If, for instance, there was now a war that led to a large-scale anti-war movement – like the one we had against the war in Vietnam – or, more likely, if we suffered one more attack on the scale of 9/11, I fear for our democracy. These powers are extremely dangerous.

There are legitimate reasons for secrecy, and specifically for secrecy about communications intelligence. That’s why Bradley Mannning and I –both of whom had access to such intelligence with clearances higher than top-secret – chose not to disclose any information with that classification. And it is why Edward Snowden has committed himself to withhold publication of most of what he might have revealed.

But what is not legitimate is to use a secrecy system to hide programs that are blatantly unconstitutional in their breadth and potential abuse. Neither the president nor Congress as a whole may by themselves revoke the fourth amendment – and that’s why what Snowden has revealed so far was secret from the American people.

In 1975, Senator Frank Church spoke of the National Security Agency in these terms:

“I know the capacity that is there to make tyranny total in America, and we must see to it that this agency and all agencies that possess this technology operate within the law and under proper supervision, so that we never cross over that abyss. That is the abyss from which there is no return.”

The dangerous prospect of which he warned was that America’s intelligence gathering capability – which is today beyond any comparison with what existed in his pre-digital era – “at any time could be turned around on the American people and no American would have any privacy left.”

That has now happened. That is what Snowden has exposed, with official, secret documents. The NSA, FBI and CIA have, with the new digital technology, surveillance powers over our own citizens that the Stasi – the secret police in the former “democratic republic” of East Germany – could scarcely have dreamed of. Snowden reveals that the so-called intelligence community has become the United Stasi of America.

So we have fallen into Senator Church’s abyss. The questions now are whether he was right or wrong that there is no return from it, and whether that means that effective democracy will become impossible. A week ago, I would have found it hard to argue with pessimistic answers to those conclusions.

But with Edward Snowden having put his life on the line to get this information out, quite possibly inspiring others with similar knowledge, conscience and patriotism to show comparable civil courage – in the public, in Congress, in the executive branch itself – I see the unexpected possibility of a way up and out of the abyss.

Pressure by an informed public on Congress to form a select committee to investigate the revelations by Snowden and, I hope, others to come might lead us to bring NSA and the rest of the intelligence community under real supervision and restraint and restore the protections of the bill of rights.

Snowden did what he did because he recognised the NSA’s surveillance programs for what they are: dangerous, unconstitutional activity. This wholesale invasion of Americans’ and foreign citizens’ privacy does not contribute to our security; it puts in danger the very liberties we’re trying to protect.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  -1  
Sun 9 Feb, 2014 07:50 pm
@glitterbag,
Gb: What because the folks he duped think he shouldn't be charged?

Edward Snowden didn't dupe anyone. He was honest and forthright. Just consider what his fate would have been had he "followed channels". Big ocean surrounding Hawaii.

You know who the folks are who truly are duping hundreds of millions of people. They are the lawbreakers, the criminals, the leaders of the United Stasi of America.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sun 9 Feb, 2014 08:00 pm
@glitterbag,
glitterbag wrote:

Pelton, Pollard, Hanson got fair trials and were convicted of espionage. Thomas Drake got indicted for his whistle blowing disclosures (not the ones thru proper channels) to the press. What makes anybody think he can't get a fair trial? What, because the folks he duped think he shouldn't be charged?


Edward Snowden CAN get a fair trial here in the US.

He will have extremely competent representation at any trial.

Most of the people who want him to receive clemency...do not want him to get a fair trial.
JTT
 
  -1  
Sun 9 Feb, 2014 08:07 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Attention: frank apisa Meme warning

Most of the people who want him to receive clemency...do not want him to get a fair trial.

Really, Frank, stop embarrassing yourself. Read what Daniel Ellsberg , a real expert has to say.
glitterbag
 
  2  
Sun 9 Feb, 2014 09:15 pm
@JTT,
How many years did you serve in the military?
JTT
 
  -1  
Sun 9 Feb, 2014 09:37 pm
@glitterbag,
Glitterbag:
How many years did you serve in the military?
-----------------------------------

A clear illustration that glitterbag is not to be trusted as far as you can throw the old bag.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  4  
Mon 10 Feb, 2014 02:26 am
@Frank Apisa,
Which ignores the fact that America (and Britain) carried out mass surveillance in contravention of its own laws.

You can't put down the feelings of those who are outraged by this as general anti-Americanism.
anonymously99
 
  0  
Mon 10 Feb, 2014 02:32 am
@izzythepush,
Upsetting.
0 Replies
 
 

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