42
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Mon 3 Feb, 2014 09:48 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:
Eddie said "enough of that ****. Speer didn't know what "modern technical development" ******* meant."




Not Eddie Hitler?
http://static3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130710165104/weapons-grade-yfronts/images/7/7e/36912_std.jpg
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Mon 3 Feb, 2014 01:36 pm
@revelette2,
Nothing ever change as the Pentagon paper leaker Daniel Ellsberg was charge with being an agent of the former USSR.

Quote:
New York Times on August 11, 1973:

An attorney for Dr. Daniel Ellsberg has chided the Senate Watergate committee for failing to challenge what he called “totally false and slanderous” testimony by the former White House aide, John D. Ehrlichman, suggesting that Dr. Ellsberg delivered copies of the Pentagon papers to the Soviet embassy.


An like Ellsberg we owe a big debt to Snowden for revealing what was being done behind our backs and in our name to said nothing of the massive spying on US citizens as well as the rest of the world.
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Mon 3 Feb, 2014 01:56 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Nothing ever change as the Pentagon paper leaker Daniel Ellsberg was charge with being an agent of the former USSR.

Quote:
New York Times on August 11, 1973:

An attorney for Dr. Daniel Ellsberg has chided the Senate Watergate committee for failing to challenge what he called “totally false and slanderous” testimony by the former White House aide, John D. Ehrlichman, suggesting that Dr. Ellsberg delivered copies of the Pentagon papers to the Soviet embassy.


An like Ellsberg we owe a big debt to Snowden for revealing what was being done behind our backs and in our name to said nothing of the massive spying on US citizens as well as the rest of the world.


Okay...so let's get him back here so he can clear his good name...preferably by showing that he is not a thief of classified documents...and that he did not give them to unauthorized people.

Right?
JTT
 
  2  
Mon 3 Feb, 2014 03:12 pm
@Frank Apisa,
You really are a idiot, Frank.

1. The USA gov are the felons, the real traitors.

2. There is no way that there could be a fair trial in the Usa
spendius
 
  2  
Mon 3 Feb, 2014 04:29 pm
@JTT,
You're wasting your time JT. No matter how often he has been told that he sticks to his fatuous line like **** to a blanket. He never tries to refute any objections. He's like a Furby. Orders is orders. You can get away with murder with the defence.

And it's a comforting blanket too.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  2  
Mon 3 Feb, 2014 10:07 pm
Just to remove some of the pressure you all put on Frank I believe that Snowden should have to tell to whom he gave his stolen information to also. If anyone else in the world had stolen secret information from the U S of A and went directly to China and than to Russia you would all call for him to be shot out of hand with or without a trial. As to handing his information out it can be condensed to a 13 gig memory that is no bigger than your finger. Hell, he could have made a hundred of copies and handed them out like popcorn. YOUR hero just might have sold you and your kids down the river to the communist countries who while not our active enemies are also not our friends. So far what he has releases is embaressing to our government but who knows what else he got and sold?
JTT
 
  -1  
Mon 3 Feb, 2014 10:34 pm
@RABEL222,
You're at least as big an idiot as Frank, Rabel. Still repeating all the bullshit propaganda you were fed .
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  4  
Mon 3 Feb, 2014 10:36 pm
@RABEL222,
HE GAVE THE INFORMATION TO THE MEDIA IN ENGLAND AND IN THE US; the Guardian, the Washington Post, and the NYT's.
BillRM
 
  2  
Tue 4 Feb, 2014 04:56 am
Quote:
Internet firms release data on NSA requests
BY MICHAEL LIEDTKE AND STEPHEN BRAUN
The Associated PressFebruary 4, 2014 Updated 20 minutes ago

WASHINGTON — Major technology firms have released new data on how often they are ordered to turn over customer information to the government for secret national security investigations, resulting in the collection of data on thousands of Americans.

That release came after the companies were freed by a recent legal deal with government lawyers.

The publications disclosed by Google, Microsoft, Yahoo, Facebook, LinkedIn and Tumblr provided expanded details and some vented criticism about the government's handling of customers' Internet data in counterterrorism and other intelligence-related probes. The figures from 2012 and 2013 showed that companies such as Google and Microsoft were compelled by the government to provide information on as many as 10,000 customer accounts in a six-month period. Yahoo complied with government requests for information on more than 40,000 accounts in the same period.

The companies earlier had provided limited information about government requests for data, but an agreement reached last week with the Obama administration allowed the firms to provide a broadened, though still circumscribed, set of figures to the public.

Seeking to reassure customers and business partners alarmed by revelations about the government's massive collection of Internet and computer data, the firms stressed details indicating that only small numbers of their customers were targeted by authorities. Still, even those small numbers showed that thousands of Americans were affected by the government requests approved by judges of the secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court.

The data releases by the major tech companies offered a mix of dispassionate graphics, reassurances and protests, seeking to alleviate customer concerns about government spying while pressuring national security officials about the companies' constitutional concerns. The shifting tone in the releases showed the precarious course that major tech firms have had to navigate in recent months, caught between their public commitments to Internet freedom and their enforced roles as data providers to U.S. spy agencies.

In a company blog post, Microsoft General Counsel Brad Smith scolded the U.S. and allied governments for failing to renounce the reported mass interception of Internet data carried by communications cables. Top lawyers and executives for major tech companies had raised alarms previously about media reports describing that hacking by U.S. and United Kingdom spy agencies and cited them during conversations with U.S. officials during President Barack Obama's internal review of planned changes to the government's spying operations.

"Despite the president's reform efforts and our ability to publish more information, there has not yet been any public commitment by either the U.S. or other governments to renounce the attempted hacking of Internet companies," Smith said in a Microsoft blog release. He added that Microsoft planned to press the government "for more on this point, in collaboration with others across our industry."

The new figures were released just a week after major tech firms announced a legal agreement with the Justice Department. But lawyers and executives for the companies openly vented their discomfort with the government's continuing insistence that they could only provide broad ranges instead of the actual numbers of government requests.

The companies said they would press for narrower data ranges that would offer more details. "We will also continue to advocate for still narrower disclosure ranges, which will provide a more accurate picture of the number of national security-related requests," said Erika Rottenberg, LinkedIn's general counsel.

A spokesman for the Office of the Director of National Intelligence declined to comment on the companies' releases and comments. The spokesman pointed to a late January statement by DNI James Clapper and Attorney General Eric Holder that said the agreement would allow the firms to "disclose more information than ever before to their customers."

Google and all the other companies denied that they gave any government unfettered access to their users' info. The companies are worried more people will reduce their online activities if they believe almost everything they do is being monitored by the government. A decline in Web surfing could hurt the companies financially by giving them fewer opportunities to show online ads and sell other services.

The companies can only reveal how many total requests they receive every six months, with the numbers in groupings of 1,000. And even those general numbers must be concealed for at least six months after any reporting period ends. That restriction means the FISA requests for the final half of last year can't be shared until July, at the earliest.

The data released Monday indicated the U.S. government is digging deeper into the Internet as people spend more time online.

Most of the companies showed the number of government requests fell between 0 and 999 for each six-month period. But the numbers of customers affected by those searches ranged more widely.

Google, for instance, has seen the number of people affected by FISA court orders rise from 2,000 to 2,999 users during the first half of 2009 to between 9,000 and 9,999 users during the first half of last year. The company showed an unusual spike in the number of Americans whose data was collected between July and December 2012. During that period, metadata was collected from between 12,000 and 12,999 users. Under the restrictions imposed by the government, no explanation was provided for that anomaly.

Yahoo listed the highest number of people swept up in FISA requests for online content during the first half of last year. The orders seeking user content spanned 30,000 to 30,999 accounts, according to the company. The requested content could have included emails, instant messages, address books, calendar items and pictures.

All the companies also received FISA requests that weren't aimed at scooping up online communications or photos. Those demands sought things such as billing information and locations of where people made an Internet connection.

Google described Monday's disclosure as a positive step while promising to keep fighting for the right to provide more precise numbers about the FISA requests and more specifics about the data being sought. "We still believe more transparency is needed so everyone can better understand how surveillance laws work and decide whether or not they serve the public interest," Richard Salgado, Google's legal director of law enforcement and information security, wrote in a blog post.

Even if the companies can share more information about the FISA requests, they still might face doubts raised by other National Security Agency documents leaked by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden asserting that the U.S. government has found ways to tap into the lines transmitting personal information between data centers. The companies are trying to thwart the hacking by encrypting most, if not all, the data stored on their computers.

---

Liedtke reported from San Francisco.
Quote:


---

0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  2  
Tue 4 Feb, 2014 06:01 am
@RABEL222,
As I understand it RABEL, the question is whether the government has behaved unconstitutionally. Do you think it has or has not?

If it has Eddie is a hero. If it hasn't then he is a traitor.

Apisa brings pressure on himself by continually repeating his mantra about a fair trial when such a thing is not a possibility in the real world. That might easily be seen as irrelevant anyway. Eddie is just a piece of grit that got into the machine. Shooting him solves nothing.

So is collecting reams of data about the private activities of Americans in secret constitutional.

Wouldn't Congress have to vote for special measures which contradicted the Constitution?

Would Congress have voted the NSA funding if what was to be done had been publicly debated?

There is nothing I have seen which is of help to any other government or serious organisation because they all knew they were being monitored. I imagine that any policy is constitutional in regard to those entities.

It is the population of the USA, it seems to me, to which the Constitution applies. And it was written in order to prevent any other type of government ever coming to power than that of the people being free of intrusions by the government into its private affairs without due cause.

I recommend posters read Brave New World Revisited. Huxley wrote it 27 years after Brave New World was published to examine how far society had drifted in the interval towards the sort of world he had envisaged in the latter. A long way he concluded and that was in 1959.

I accept that in our world of 2014, and the calculable future, privacy might have to go and that collecting our turds and posting them to the Turd Assessment Centre duly labelled for analysis might save a large number of lives. Early detection of diseases is an ambition of all those who have our welfare at heart.

Nah--that's no good is it? Anybody handling certain suspicious chemicals would send somebody else's turds. You know how cunning human beings are. So they would have to be collected. Personally. To be verified.

The possibility that the garbage is being picked through has led to a rapid growth in the demand for shredders. A bloke in the pub bought one from a DIY store. It took months for me to stop laughing at him. I have seen trucks marked Industrial Security. That's big shredders.

We can't be too careful.



revelette2
 
  0  
Tue 4 Feb, 2014 07:17 am
@spendius,
Whether the government behaved unconstitutionally is a matter for the courts and the voting public to decide. The real question is whether Snowden broke laws when he stole information from his place of business and took them out of his place of business giving it to other people he had no business giving it to. You all have said the end does not justify the mean, that goes for Snowden as well.
BillRM
 
  2  
Tue 4 Feb, 2014 07:23 am
@revelette2,
I love the idea that government employees with secret stamps can used the stamps to cover up their crimes and on top of that placed anyone who blow the whistle on them into a small cell for thirty years or so and people like you defend that being the case.

A runaway NSA is far far more of a danger to the nation freedoms then all the terrorists in the middle east.

Hell right now we have no way to know if the politicians defending the intelligence community are doing so of their own free will or are being blackmail into doing so in the same manner as presidents and congress members was blackmail by Hoover.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  4  
Tue 4 Feb, 2014 07:53 am
@revelette2,
But how do you propose that conversation take place in the presence of a secret government triumvirate which in itself is likely unconstitutional? A secret shadow government in all three branches. Who should decide? The people and the courts, as you've said. But how are they to know that there's a conversation to be had without evidence? So, now we have evidence and we're having the conversation. The real question has nothing to do with whether Snowden broke the law. He's already admitted that he has, and that he gave the evidence to the free press called out for in our constitution to keep us informed and our government honest explicitly so that we could have this conversation. I agree with the NYT editor who suggested he plead guilty in exchange for community service by traveling the country giving civics lessons in school.
Frank Apisa
 
  -1  
Tue 4 Feb, 2014 08:19 am
@RABEL222,
I see that the next post to yours has ci talking as though he knows what Snowden did and did not do.

Gotta feel sorry for ci. He obviously thinks he is god...and that probably clouds most of his...umm, what should I call it....ummm, thinking. (Don't take that too literally.)
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Tue 4 Feb, 2014 08:20 am
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:

Whether the government behaved unconstitutionally is a matter for the courts and the voting public to decide. The real question is whether Snowden broke laws when he stole information from his place of business and took them out of his place of business giving it to other people he had no business giving it to. You all have said the end does not justify the mean, that goes for Snowden as well.


You are absolutely correct there, Revelette!

Thank you.
spendius
 
  4  
Tue 4 Feb, 2014 08:20 am
@revelette2,
Quote:
Whether the government behaved unconstitutionally is a matter for the courts and the voting public to decide.


JPB has answered that so there's no need for me to.

Eddie's irrelevant. He's a catalyst.

He has raised the issue of where to draw the line on government intrusion. Would you defend secret water doctoring? Or the whistle-blower who exposed it if it was happening.

Call it a Hail Mary. Over to you. What use is revenge?
JTT
 
  -1  
Tue 4 Feb, 2014 08:27 am
@revelette2,
Rev: Whether the government behaved unconstitutionally is a matter for the courts and the voting public to decide.
---------------------

Neither of those groups have shown the slightest inclination to reign in terrorist USA governments.

Sheeple all!
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Tue 4 Feb, 2014 08:31 am
@Frank Apisa,
You are a joke, frank, an apologist for terrorists and war criminals. An apologist for one of the grandest criminal enterprises the world has ever seen.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  -1  
Tue 4 Feb, 2014 08:50 am
Well...although the notion seems to be unpopular here...

...I certainly hope Edward Snowden gets the opportunity to clear his name...

...by a decision in a fair trial here in the US.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Tue 4 Feb, 2014 09:08 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
You all have said the end does not justify the mean,


Nonsense there are all kinds of situations where breaking the law is completely justify.

An the ends does justify the means with special note of when the government is acting in an immortal manner and in this case a unconstitutional manner also.

Let see stealing the property of someone else and moving it in secret across state lines was a completely moral act when the property happen to be black.
slaves for example.

In the same manner as using force to stop slave catchers from returning that property to the south is also a completely moral act even after the SC had declare it an illegal action.

In my opinion, Frank and some others would had make ideal Germans in the 1930s obeying the state no matter how immoral the state actions happen to be.

Snowden is a hero in the same class as those who ran the underground railroad breaking state and federal laws when they was doing so.

The government had no moral right to hid their misdeeds from the american people using a secret stamp nor do they have any moral right to punish those who reveal those misdeeds.
 

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