41
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Sat 11 Jan, 2014 09:51 pm
@glitterbag,
We instead we have a case of government employees misusing the power we had granted them to spy on the bulk of the american people along with the bulk of the rest of the human race and in doing so is breaking the constitution and doing so in secret.

Yes Snowdon is a hero in revealing this criminal conduct of some of our own government employees at great personal cost to himself.

Quote:
"What constitutes the bulwark of our own liberty and independence? It is not our frowning battlements, our bristling seacoasts, the guns of our war steamers, or the strength of our gallant and disciplined army. These are not our reliance against a resumption of tyranny in our fair land. All of them may be turned against our liberties, without making us stronger or weaker for the struggle. Our reliance is in the love of liberty which God has planted in our bosoms. Our defense is in the preservation of the spirit which prizes liberty as the heritage of all men, in all lands, everywhere. Destroy this spirit, and you have planted the seeds of despotism around your own doors. Familiarize yourselves with the chains of bondage, and you are preparing your own limbs to wear them. Accustomed to trample on the rights of those around you, you become the fit subjects of the first cunning tyrant who rises." - Abraham Lincoln
glitterbag
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Jan, 2014 10:04 pm
@BillRM,
Really!!! 10 weeks working as a contractor and he discovered a massive effort by government employees doing what? I suppose you think you can stroll into the Pentagon and drop into strategic planning meetings. Give it a try. I don't know what your profession is, I'm sure it's also run by corrupt deviants. You have very little faith in the people who risk their lives everyday, so you can type on your computer what a miraculous man Snowden is. You better not be sporting one of those "I support the troops" flags, pin or magnets. You're just another slack jawed drooling parasite. What a frigging patriot.
BillRM
 
  3  
Reply Sat 11 Jan, 2014 10:10 pm
@glitterbag,
Quote:
You have very little faith in the people who risk their lives everyday


My my so the people who are forcing american companies to aid them in doing massive spying on US citizens with secret courts orders breaking the constitution are risking their lives to do so???!!!!!?????

Hell the people that are risking their lives for all of us are having or was having their personal phone calls home to their love ones being monitor.
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Jan, 2014 10:30 pm
@glitterbag,
Wussy
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jan, 2014 08:08 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

It doesn't matter what your definition for those two words are. NONE. Whatever PROOF or EVIDENCE the bbeliever interprets why they believe is what counts.


I made a statement...then made a second statement.

The statements were completely consistent...with no contradictions whatsoever.

You claimed there was a contradiction.

You were...and still are...completely WRONG.

But you do not have the moral code, sense of ethics, or spine to simply acknowledge you were wrong.

So we keep going.

Fine with me.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Sun 12 Jan, 2014 08:09 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

This is a subject about philosophy, not math. You don't get to interpret words in philosophy to your own definition. But you continue to try.


This is a discussion about what I wrote...and your assertion that there is a contradiction involved in what I wrote.

There is none.

You simply cannot work up the qualities needed to acknowledge that you were wrong.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jan, 2014 01:59 pm
@Frank Apisa,
The two words we are discussing are proof and evidence. In philosophy, there is no ddifference
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jan, 2014 03:00 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

The two words we are discussing are proof and evidence. In philosophy, there is no ddifference


There most assuredly is a difference.

But in any case, that is not what we are discussing.

We are discussing the fact that you said I had made a contradiction.

I had said I would not ask for "proof" of the existence of gods...but I would ask for the "evidence" upon which the assertion that there is a god...is made.

The second quote you mentioned had me asking for "evidence."

There is no contradiction there...but obviously you are not man enough...nor do you have the ethical wherewithal to acknowledge that you are wrong on this.

But keep making a fool of yourself, ci. It has become fun to watch.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jan, 2014 03:59 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Yes, it is! You said you never ask for proof that god exists or does not exist.
In philosophy, proof is the evidence or argument that compels the mind to accept an assertion as true.. The Idividual's belief is the proof.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jan, 2014 05:06 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Yes, it is! You said you never ask for proof that god exists or does not exist.


And I did not ask for proof.

Read what I wrote...I DID NOT ASK FOR PROOF.

Quote:
In philosophy, proof is the evidence or argument that compels the mind to accept an assertion as true.. The Idividual's belief is the proof.


First of all...we were not discussing philosophy. We were discussing Snowden. Then you brought in a discussion I was having about religion.

This philosophy nonsense is just that...absolute blather.

Apparently it is occasioned by the fact that you are not man enough to acknowledge that you are wrong on this issue.

It's really just the two of us, ci. Most of the other people are probably thinking we are a couple of old farts just arguing nonsense.

And we are.

But your nonsense is nonsense on an entirely lower plane.

I said I NEVER ask for proof...only for evidence.

I asked for evidence...NOT FOR PROOF.

Now, since you do not have the ethical wherewithal to acknowledge that you were mistaken, you are trying to say that because I asked for evidence (which I said I ask for)...I am being contradictory.

Your entire thesis is laughable...but you are so tied up in your unwillingness to stand up like a man and own up to a mistake...you cannot enjoy the laugh with me.

Too bad that.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jan, 2014 05:45 pm
@Frank Apisa,
This thread is about Snowden, and it was NEVER about math where the issue of proof has meaning. In philosophical issues proof is anything that has evidence - such as why so many humans be!ieve in their god.
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Sun 12 Jan, 2014 06:00 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
We are discussing the fact that you said I had made a contradiction.


Goodness gracious me!!

One has to wonder whether it is of the slightest significance whether Apisa has made a contradiction or has not.

That is of lesser interest than whether Apisa has launched an air biscuit or whether it was someone else.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jan, 2014 07:01 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

This thread is about Snowden, and it was NEVER about math where the issue of proof has meaning. In philosophical issues proof is anything that has evidence - such as why so many humans be!ieve in their god.


No, ci...you said that I contradicted myself...when it is perfectly obvious that I did not.

Try to grow up. You won't die or suffer if you finally acknowledge that you were wrong on this.

The evidence that theists bring to the table...IS NOT PROOF. They do bring what they consider evidence...just as strong atheists bring what they consider evidence. Neither brings proof.

Proof and evidence in this situation are not one and the same.

Grow up, ci. Just acknowledge that you were wrong.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jan, 2014 08:44 pm
@Frank Apisa,
That you have difficulty with concepts is your problem. That you are blind to your own contradiction is your problem. Your definitions for proof are meaningless in philosophy.
Any evidence or argument that compels the mind to accept an assertion a as true is proof to that individual. It's their proof that counts, not your definition.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jan, 2014 01:05 am
@BillRM,
There's also the issue of any citizen that reports a tax cheat will be rewarded with money. That Snowden ratted on the government for breaking our laws should also be rewarded with money.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jan, 2014 06:55 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

That you have difficulty with concepts is your problem. That you are blind to your own contradiction is your problem. Your definitions for proof are meaningless in philosophy.
Any evidence or argument that compels the mind to accept an assertion a as true is proof to that individual. It's their proof that counts, not your definition.


It's only the two of us, ci...and you seem unable to even convince yourself.

You're a phony, ci...a guy who cannot acknowledge when he is wrong.

You claimed a contradiction...and there was none.

It is almost certain there are no proofs for the existence of gods. Some people claim there is evidence that gods exist...and it never hurts to allow them to present the evidence.

So what a reasonable person does is to ask for the "evidence." To ask for "proof" as I stated in the first remark you quoted, is unfair.

We both know you were wrong...and we both know you cannot work up the ethical sense to acknowledge that you are wrong.

I've read the Wikipedia articles, ci...I pointed you to them. Pulling pieces of them out in a desperate attempt to make my position seem unreasonable so that you can justify your error is a gas to watch.

But we both know the truth.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jan, 2014 06:56 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

There's also the issue of any citizen that reports a tax cheat will be rewarded with money. That Snowden ratted on the government for breaking our laws should also be rewarded with money.


Fine with me. I hope he gets plenty...after the trial.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Mon 13 Jan, 2014 06:58 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
It is almost certain there are no proofs for the existence of gods.


That is pure forked-tongued rubbish.

Quote:
So what a reasonable person does is to ask for the "evidence."


As is that.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 13 Jan, 2014 10:03 am
From yesterday's WaPo-blog:
Quote:
An analysis of 225 terrorism cases inside the United States since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks has concluded that the bulk collection of phone records by the National Security Agency “has had no discernible impact on preventing acts of terrorism.”

In the majority of cases, traditional law enforcement and investigative methods provided the tip or evidence to initiate the case, according to the study by the New America Foundation, a Washington-based nonprofit group.


Quote:

http://i1334.photobucket.com/albums/w641/Walter_Hinteler/a_zpsc6b3da10.jpg

On June 5, 2013, the Guardian broke the first story in what would become a flood of revelations regarding the extent and nature of the NSA’s surveillance programs. Facing an uproar over the threat such programs posed to privacy, the Obama administration scrambled to defend them as legal and essential to U.S. national security and counterterrorism. Two weeks after the first leaks by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden were published, President Obama defended the NSA surveillance programs during a visit to Berlin, saying: “We know of at least 50 threats that have been averted because of this information not just in the United States, but, in some cases, threats here in Germany. So lives have been saved.” Gen. Keith Alexander, the director of the NSA, testified before Congress that: “the information gathered from these programs provided the U.S. government with critical leads to help prevent over 50 potential terrorist events in more than 20 countries around the world.” Rep. Mike Rogers (R-Mich.), chairman of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, said on the House floor in July that “54 times [the NSA programs] stopped and thwarted terrorist attacks both here and in Europe – saving real lives.”

However, our review of the government’s claims about the role that NSA “bulk” surveillance of phone and email communications records has had in keeping the United States safe from terrorism shows that these claims are overblown and even misleading. An in-depth analysis of 225 individuals recruited by al-Qaeda or a like-minded group or inspired by al-Qaeda’s ideology, and charged in the United States with an act of terrorism since 9/11, demonstrates that traditional investigative methods, such as the use of informants, tips from local communities, and targeted intelligence operations, provided the initial impetus for investigations in the majority of cases, while the contribution of NSA’s bulk surveillance programs to these cases was minimal. Indeed, the controversial bulk collection of American telephone metadata, which includes the telephone numbers that originate and receive calls, as well as the time and date of those calls but not their content, under Section 215 of the USA PATRIOT Act, appears to have played an identifiable role in initiating, at most, 1.8 percent of these cases. NSA programs involving the surveillance of non-U.S. persons outside of the United States under Section 702 of the FISA Amendments Act played a role in 4.4 percent of the terrorism cases we examined, and NSA surveillance under an unidentified authority played a role in 1.3 percent of the cases we examined.
Full report Do NSA's Bulk Surveillance Programs Stop Terrorists? >here<
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jan, 2014 12:03 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Who's the phony here? I've adm itted when I've been wrong and even apologized to several people.

You're just a waste of time, and you're now on my Ignore list.
 

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