Snowdon is a dummy

this NSA bullshit is going to go down just like drone Assassinations and a decade of war mongering in Muslim nations, the USA using technical advantage to give everyone the middle finger as it pursues its will, thinking that it has won, only to find out that the victory was illusionary because it sacrificed everything that it claims to stand for for immediate goals. what was forgotten is that cheats dont always work, sometime you need to play by the rules, that wins that dont come by playing by the rules are not worth much, or anything.

2 Replies

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Quote:
You do not determine what is and what is not Constitutional, Bill. Neither does Snowden. That job is left to the SCOTUS (albeit, not by the Constitution.)

The federal courts however does and even the secret court had rule that some of the actions of the NSA was unconstitutional and now that the open Federal courts are getting involved thanks to Snowdon more rulings are coming down to that effect.

There is no real question what this means......and you had openly supported the intelligence community not obeying this part of the constitution.

Quote:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.[1]

Bill...YOU do not decide what is or is not constitutional. The SCOTUS does. Sometimes I agree with its decisions...sometimes I disagree. But the SCOTUS decides...not you...not Snowden.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

this is not the old Church where the priests are the only ones who decide what the bible says, we all have a say in what the Constitution says and means, it is not left to SCOTUS to decide for us. SCOTUS decides what the governments final word on that document is, but if we the people decide otherwise then our decision is the one that should stand.

SCOTUS...makes the final decisions.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

snowden says he won, and he is right....the truth shows just how immoral the US government has become., and now everyone knows it. the snowden leaks will end up doing more to weaken Americas standing in the world than the wars did, and probably more than our incompetent economic management did.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

hawkeye10 wrote:

this is not the old Church where the priests are the only ones who decide what the bible says, we all have a say in what the Constitution says and means, it is not left to SCOTUS to decide for us. SCOTUS decides what the governments final word on that document is, but if we the people decide otherwise then our decision is the one that should stand.

SCOTUS...makes the final decisions.

for the apparatus of the state, yes, but not for me. I never authorized scotus to speak for me.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

But the SCOTUS decides...not you...not Snowden

Pretty must Snowdon did decide by casting the lights on the sewer that our so call intelligence agencies had become.

Not too many NSA employees that can hold their heads high with their families and friends this holiday season now that it had been reveal they are employed in taking away the privacy of the american people including their neighbors and family.

3 Replies

@BillRM,

scotus approved NSA operations, the world and Americans mostly do not....again we see SCOTUS not upholding its duties, the court is but a shadow of what it once was, and the diminished respect shown it is deserved.

2 Replies

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Sure you are as you are supporting the government not following the constitution with special note of the bill of rights.

There has been no violation of the Constitution or Bill of Rights. Given the grave threat posed by groups like al-Qa'ida, it is Reasonable™ to conduct searches to try to find them before they are able to harm us.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

The federal courts however does and even the secret court had rule that some of the actions of the NSA was unconstitutional and now that the open Federal courts are getting involved thanks to Snowdon more rulings are coming down to that effect.

Any ruling to that effect is wrong.

The odds are 99% that the Court of Appeals will stomp hard on any such ruling.

The odds are 100% that the Supreme Court will stomp hard on any such ruling.

The odds are 99% that both the Liberal and the Conservative justices on the Supreme Court will stomp hard on any such ruling.

BillRM wrote:

There is no real question what this means......and you had openly supported the intelligence community not obeying this part of the constitution.

The intelligence community has not disobeyed any part of the Constitution. Given the grave threat posed by groups like al-Qa'ida, it is Reasonable™ to conduct searches to try to find them before they are able to harm us.

Quote:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.[1]

A Reasonable™ search does not violate any prohibition against unreasonable searches.

0 Replies

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

this is not the old Church where the priests are the only ones who decide what the bible says, we all have a say in what the Constitution says and means, it is not left to SCOTUS to decide for us. SCOTUS decides what the governments final word on that document is, but if we the people decide otherwise then our decision is the one that should stand.

The only correct interpretation of the Constitution is the one that reflects the intent of the people who wrote it.

0 Replies

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

this NSA bullshit is going to go down just like drone Assassinations and a decade of war mongering in Muslim nations,

Only in the sense that all of the above are good things.

Note that the only war mongers here are our enemies. We are merely defending ourselves from Islamic aggression.

hawkeye10 wrote:

the USA using technical advantage to give everyone the middle finger as it pursues its will, thinking that it has won, only to find out that the victory was illusionary because it sacrificed everything that it claims to stand for for immediate goals.

What sacrifice is this? It looks to me like we are doing our principles proud.

hawkeye10 wrote:

what was forgotten is that cheats dont always work, sometime you need to play by the rules, that wins that dont come by playing by the rules are not worth much, or anything.

Since we have been playing by the rules, I am unsure why we would need to remember this.

0 Replies

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

snowden says he won, and he is right....the truth shows just how immoral the US government has become., and now everyone knows it. the snowden leaks will end up doing more to weaken Americas standing in the world than the wars did, and probably more than our incompetent economic management did.

There is nothing immoral in the fact that our spy agencies try to find groups like al-Qa'ida before they can harm us.

If our standing really is weakened with someone because of this, we should regard that someone as a potential terrorist and treat them accordingly.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Big Brother needs no other justification oralloy.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Not too many NSA employees that can hold their heads high with their families and friends this holiday season now that it had been reveal they are employed in taking away the privacy of the american people including their neighbors and family.

I doubt that many NSA employees are able to share with their wider family who they work for.

But it is extremely unlikely that any of them are ashamed of the fact that they try to shield the American people from terrorist attacks.

0 Replies

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

scotus approved NSA operations, the world and Americans mostly do not....again we see SCOTUS not upholding its duties, the court is but a shadow of what it once was, and the diminished respect shown it is deserved.

The job of the Supreme Court is to uphold the Constitution, not to do what the people want it to do.

Though I doubt many Americans truly wish our spy agencies to stop trying to track down terrorists.

1 Reply

@spendius,

spendius wrote:

Big Brother needs no other justification oralloy.

If someone wants to propose some sort of reasonable change that would help protect against hypothetical abuses, that would be one thing.

But these fictitious claims of some sort of imaginary wrongdoing are pointless. The NSA has not done anything wrong, and baseless claims to the contrary will not change that reality.

2 Replies

@oralloy,

Quote:

There is nothing immoral in the fact that our spy agencies try to find groups like al-Qa'ida before they can harm us.

There is something very immoral indeed in using al-Qa'ida as an excused to do massive spying on your own people.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Quote:

Though I doubt many Americans truly wish our spy agencies to stop trying to track down terrorists

I would think that most Americans however are not happy the government is using the terrorists threats as an excused to build details data bases on all of us!!!!!

Similar to Hoover getting blackmail information on people in power by using the excuse of the big bad commies threat.

0 Replies

@oralloy,

Quote:

IF someone wants to propose some sort of reasonable change that would help protect against hypothetical abuses, that would be one thing.

Sure cut the SOBs budgets by 80 percents or so forcing them back to focusing on real threats not on creating data bases on all of us.

3 Replies

@BillRM,

On some topics, you're spot on!

0 Replies

Snowdon is a dummy

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