42
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sat 6 Jul, 2013 05:12 pm
@JPB,
I agree with many of your points, but who do you think are the blame for the corruption of our government?
Mame
 
  2  
Sat 6 Jul, 2013 05:19 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Politicians, billionaires, people with agendas... same old.
JTT
 
  0  
Sat 6 Jul, 2013 05:25 pm
@Brandon9000,
Quote:
With Cuba, the combination of being a Communist dictatorship, being an accessory to the pointing of nuclear missiles at us right off our shores, executing political prisoners, etc. makes them a government I don't like.


You've ignored your hypocrisy. And added more. The US doesn't own "off our shores", though many of you think you do. What of all the missiles right off Russia's borders that are, to this day, still there?

"executing political prisoners", you say? Right in this thread I provide a source that described how the CIA, with substantial and direct help from US embassies and US presidents provided to the Indonesians kill lists of "political prisoners". That same thing has happened in Nicaragua, Guatemala, Brazil, Chile, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, El Salvador, Panama, Ecuador, Angola, whichever country the US has invaded.

In this same thread I provided a source that Mame commented on reading that discussed numerous examples of how often the US has engaged in this practice. It really is not a stretch to say that the US modernized it and made it more ruthless and vicious.

Would you like to read more on this, Brandon?


Quote:
I'm also not thrilled that a government I dislike a lot is very close


Imagine then, if you will, empathetic fellow that you are, how some 400 to ??? million Latin and South American people, the ones still alive anyway after a century of US brutality, must feel.

Quote:
It is sufficient for me to approve of an embargo. Are there other governments I dislike as much that we don't embargo? Sure, but I don't face the choice of embargoing every country in the world I dislike or none. Embargoing several but not all is fine with me.


You can, of course, see how your personal likes and dislikes shouldn't be translated into allowing your government, or any government, to rape, torture and murder people and steal their wealth by either direct occupation or by supporting a US compliant dictator.

Why would you be so concerned about the dictatorship in Cuba when the US has had dictators in all Latin and South American countries? The US supported dictators didn't supply free education, free medical care, a caring loving society, all the things that the Castro dictatorship has supplied at great personal risk to himself.

How could anyone in their right mind [excuse me,Mame] find it surprising that Castro and the Cuban people have had to maintain strict controls on their political system when the very country that had long subjugated them, brutalized them, stole from them, stood right at their doorstep, clamoring to do the same thing to them again.

Really, no, I really mean it - really think about it. The US and people like you, Brandon, talk a good game about freedom and all that crap, but yet the US and people like you, Brandon, have never given this precious gift to any people or country.

The US, with its might, by allowing this embargo to continue for the number of years it has, by trying to force, and actually forcing other countries to follow suit, has committed one of its most egregious war crimes. Now if it was just an embargo, evil as it is, that would be one thing. But the actions against Cuba, by the US, over the last 50 years are precisely the terrorist actions that the US decries.

And for what reason? US national security. Yup, the US has advanced that facetious notion umpteen thousand times.

"President Kennedy warned the Mexican ambassador that Cuba was very dangerous and a threat to security during the Cuban Missile Crisis era. The Mexican ambassador's told President Kennedy that "If we publicly declare that Cuba is a threat to our security, forty million Mexicans will die laughing".

But how many millions of Americans have bought this outlandish notion in order to punish a tiny little neighbor of the US?

JPB
 
  3  
Sat 6 Jul, 2013 05:32 pm
@ossobuco,
My bed is well occupied, thank you. I, too, have read many years of his posts. I believe I've said this before here but I'll reiterate. One of my last phone conversations with dys included a discussion of JTT. We concurred that he had much to say that was on point, but we both wished it could be delivered with less vitriol.
JTT
 
  0  
Sat 6 Jul, 2013 05:34 pm
Let's let the Cuban people speak. Consider for a moment, [and even the fairly young can participate in this] in all the years, the time surrounding all these US invasions, have you ever heard the other side's arguments and points? Have you ever listened to the Cubans, the Nicaraguans, the ... ?

Quote:
Why blockade instead of embargo?


The “embargo” definition does not fit in with the actions exerted against Cuba by the US government. All the way around, those actions go beyond that definition to typify “a blockade” as they pursue Cuba’s isolation, suffocation and immobility, with the crooked purpose of pushing its people to give up their decision of being sovereign and independent. The blockade concept comprises all the aforementioned, since “blockade” means to cut and close the bonds with the outside world in order to isolate and oblige the besieged country to surrender by force or starvation.
To consider the blockade “a war action” was a principle accepted by International Law since the Naval Conference held in London in 1909. In accordance with this principle, such measure can be exerted only among belligerents. On the other hand, no International Law rule justify the so-called “pacific blockade”, which was a practice developed by the colonial powers during the 19th century and in the beginning of the 20th .

So controversial concept has no tradition even within the principles on International Law accepted by the United States of America, but American authorities’ memory is so bad that they have forgotten what they warned to France in 1916: “The United States do not recognize the right of any foreign power to hinder the exercise of non-interested country commercial rights, resorting to the blockade when a state of war does not exist”.

“Embargo” is generally known as the legal manner of retaining assets in order to assure the fulfillment of an obligation lawfully accepted. It can also be a preventive measure of patrimonial character authorized by judge, court or competent authority with the same purpose of obliging the debtor to fulfill its commitments with their creditors. Is Cuba by chance debtor of the United States? Has Cuba committed any offense as a result of which the kidnapping and liquidation of its assets in favor of the United States can be authorized? The crystal-clear and convincing answer is No. Cuba has never been nor is today a threaten for the US national security , so that, the attempt to apply measures of legitimate defense with regard to the Island is an action against International Law, taking into account that International Law does not recognize subjective legitimate defense, nor justify the legitimate subjective defense brought into play by the Monroe Doctrine, which is in fact an aggression policy.

Despite the “embargo” expression, that group of coercive and economically aggressive measures, are in fact an illegal blockade imposed by the United States against Cuba, therefore, such criminal behavior against the Island cannot be hidden behind legal figures unable to typify its real nature. The figure “embargo” is used by the US government to conceal the applying of wartime measures to Cuba, which are no less than a non-declared war against the Cuban people. The blockade against Cuba is the utmost expression of a genocide behavior aimed at intentionally provoke extremely hard living conditions for Cubans seeking to inflict total or partial physical damages that eventually led to weaken their decision of fighting and defeat any adversary.

http://www.cubavsbloqueo.cu/Default.aspx?tabid=270

0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  2  
Sat 6 Jul, 2013 05:35 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I've been against political parties for ages, CI. That's the first source of if issue, imo. The second source is the military-industrial complex that keeps so many of us employed. Beyond that, I think we're all a product of our upbringing.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Sat 6 Jul, 2013 05:42 pm
@JPB,
Quote:
We concurred that he had much to say that was on point, but we both wished it could be delivered with less vitriol.


I actually wish that to have been the case too, JPB.

But you know what else I wish - I wish that the US had actually delivered its message around the world with less vitriol.

I also wish that people like you and Dys had took up and said it yourself, in your own words of course, making it clear that these illusions about US beneficence were just that, illusions.

Did this start before or after Iraq? before or after 9-11? How can one expect these lies to stop if no one will speak up?
ossobuco
 
  1  
Sat 6 Jul, 2013 05:43 pm
@JPB,
And I agree with both of you.
JTT
 
  0  
Sat 6 Jul, 2013 05:48 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
I agree with many of your points, but who do you think are the blame for the corruption of our government?


I realize that you aren't really into much I have to say, CI, so I'll just let Abe speak;

"... that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Sat 6 Jul, 2013 06:09 pm
I ask whoever will care to consider this;

Whose propaganda is it that you have you been subjected to for your whole lives? Is it Russian propaganda? Cuban, Brazilian, Vietnamese, Korean perhaps?

By what means have you received any and all information about countries other than your own?
JTT
 
  0  
Sat 6 Jul, 2013 06:11 pm
@ossobuco,
Then, sorry, but this is really gonna fry your butt, Osso. You agree with me. Smile
ossobuco
 
  3  
Sat 6 Jul, 2013 06:26 pm
@JTT,
I've long mostly agreed with you - that hasn't been the problem.

I think you suck intentionally all over the place all the time, always with the hate.


0 Replies
 
Mame
 
  1  
Sat 6 Jul, 2013 06:29 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:


How could anyone in their right mind [excuse me,Mame] find it surprising that Castro and the Cuban people have had to maintain strict controls on their political system when the very country that had long subjugated them, brutalized them, stole from them, stood right at their doorstep, clamoring to do the same thing to them again.

Really, no, I really mean it - really think about it. The US and people like you, Brandon, talk a good game about freedom and all that crap, but yet the US and people like you, Brandon, have never given this precious gift to any people or country.

The US, with its might, by allowing this embargo to continue for the number of years it has, by trying to force, and actually forcing other countries to follow suit, has committed one of its most egregious war crimes. Now if it was just an embargo, evil as it is, that would be one thing. But the actions against Cuba, by the US, over the last 50 years are precisely the terrorist actions that the US decries.

And for what reason? US national security. Yup, the US has advanced that facetious notion umpteen thousand times.

"President Kennedy warned the Mexican ambassador that Cuba was very dangerous and a threat to security during the Cuban Missile Crisis era. The Mexican ambassador's told President Kennedy that "If we publicly declare that Cuba is a threat to our security, forty million Mexicans will die laughing".

But how many millions of Americans have bought this outlandish notion in order to punish a tiny little neighbor of the US?




I completely agree... it was an over-reaction that has lasted an unbelievable 50 years, and is ongoing. And what has Cuba done to anyone? They have suffered to maintain their independence. I've always admired anyone, any country that told the US to F.O. And Fidel did that, and survived. I've always supported his agenda. Yes, his ppl suffered, but they might have endured worse under US 'rule'. Likely they would have been ripped off and used. If I were Cuban, it'd be worth it to give the finger to the US, just to have my independence. And things are changing... as they will... life will be better for Cubans. I stayed at a B&B in Veradero where the owner was jubilant about the upcoming changes. It takes a while to change a mind-set. I wish them the very, very best, and believe they will succeed in their endeavours - unless the US gets an 'in' in Cuba.
JPB
 
  1  
Sat 6 Jul, 2013 06:45 pm
@JTT,
I've already answered that, JTT. I believe it began here

http://able2know.org/topic/217301-18#post-5378012
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Sat 6 Jul, 2013 06:48 pm
@Mame,
But the reality is that Cubans like Americans. I've been to Cuba five times during the past two years, and I also love the Cubans. I love their food, drinks, cigars, sites, museums, and the friendships I have developed with many of them throughout Cuba. I even know Hiroshi Robaina, the owner of one of the oldest (used to be the biggest at one time), Robaina, tobacco farm. His grandfather is the founder of the farm back in 1854, and Alejandro Robaina is the dean and legend of the cigar industry in Cuba, and his pictures and statues can be seen all over the country.
JTT
 
  0  
Sat 6 Jul, 2013 06:59 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
But the reality is that Cubans like Americans.


That certainly speaks well about the Cubans, CI.

Consider how Americans treat other peoples and countries even when they have never done a thing to the US or USians. Consider your silence as Brandon et al, US politicians and other US citizens, maligns them and their country.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sat 6 Jul, 2013 07:08 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Here's a picture of me with Hiroshi in the middle.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/imposter222/P1050142.jpg
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  2  
Sat 6 Jul, 2013 07:40 pm
@Mame,
While the US of A was doing this in South America the Russians were doing it in Eastern Europe, and the British were doing it in the Middle East. So your rant seems to me to be very partisan. All the powers were showing their asses.
CapnKrunk
 
  0  
Sat 6 Jul, 2013 07:42 pm
@cicerone imposter,
OH MY GOD I'M SO SURPRISED THE GOVERNMENT IS WATCHING.

whistleblower should be reserved for something less obvious
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  1  
Sat 6 Jul, 2013 07:52 pm
@ossobuco,
Quote:
Yes to that except I was born earlier.


Me too. Earlier than you.
 

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