42
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
JTT
 
  0  
Sat 6 Jul, 2013 03:29 pm
@Mame,
Quote:
I have always agreed with your comments about US aggression/ interference/ threats, JTT.


Forgive when I point out that that was never at all apparent, Mame. You've attacked me, as is your right, for what are trivial grievances compared to that which I point out.

If folks had approached this with a greater degree of transparency and honesty, a lot of what has occurred at A2K would likely never have occurred.

But let me just reiterate my happiness, not for me, at what you have stated and continue to state here on this thread.
Brandon9000
 
  0  
Sat 6 Jul, 2013 03:33 pm
@Mame,
Mame wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

1. We don't like Communist governments, we don't like Cuba's part in the Cuban missile crisis, and we don't like many other things about the Cuban government. Therefore, we choose not to trade with them, which is our right. Toner is obviously just a diplomat making the type of typical BS statements that diplomats make, hardly an example of massive wrongdoing.
2. I agree with you completely about Snowden. In my book, he's a hero.


1. What difference could it or does it possibly make to you what type of government another country has? It's all about the bucks, so if there's trade, there's money. And you're dealing with China, aren't you? And Russia. Get off the pot.

But I do care. For many years, the Capitalist and Communist countries were competing spheres of influence in the world. I don't like the way the Communist governments behaved then or behave now. What pot am I on that you wish me to get off of?

Mame wrote:
2. You don't like Cuba's part in its own Cuban Missile Crisis??? What the hell did you think they were going to do?

It's an eccentricity of mine that I dislike people who try to facilitate my death. Sorry.
Mame wrote:
3. You didn't 'choose' not to trade with them. The US instituted the embargo in 1960 when Cuba nationalized all US-owned properties, before the Bay of Pigs and the Missile Crisis. After the Crisis, it enlarged the embargo.

I did choose not to trade with them. Didn't you know that in the US, the government serves the peoples' will? I voted for a series of political candidates none of whom, to my knowledge, wanted to lift the embargo without a change in behavior by Cuba. We may trade or not trade with whom we please.
JTT
 
  0  
Sat 6 Jul, 2013 03:45 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
Secrets released en masse without any context are not helpful to anyone.


Propaganda never helps any sitution, JW. I believe if you check the media record, you will find that this has not been the case.

But let me ask you this.

Forgive me but I don't at all believe that you would have the same response if the same thing happened to Russia or possibly even Germany, if the releases went towards exposing the war crimes and terrorist activities of other nations.

Quote:
My question to you: how many times will you need to mention JPB's backhanded compliment?


As many times as is necessary to aid blockheads to grasp that the most effective medicine to combat propaganda is the truth.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Sat 6 Jul, 2013 03:51 pm
@Brandon9000,
Quote:
It's an eccentricity of mine that I dislike people who try to facilitate my death. Sorry.


Do you suspect this to be a universal feeling?


Quote:
Didn't you know that in the US, the government serves the peoples' will?


Really, Brandon? Do you have any grasp of the nature of this thread?

Quote:
But I do care. For many years, the Capitalist and Communist countries were competing spheres of influence in the world. I don't like the way the Communist governments behaved then or behave now.


What did you find about their behavior that you didn't like?

Quote:
I did choose not to trade with them. Didn't you know that in the US, the government serves the peoples' will? I voted for a series of political candidates none of whom, to my knowledge, wanted to lift the embargo without a change in behavior by Cuba.


Please don't limit your hypocrisy to Cuba, Brandon.


Quote:
We may trade or not trade with whom we please.


What you're saying is the US should not be forced to trade with anyone. Is that correct?
Brandon9000
 
  -1  
Sat 6 Jul, 2013 03:56 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

...
Quote:
I did choose not to trade with them. Didn't you know that in the US, the government serves the peoples' will? I voted for a series of political candidates none of whom, to my knowledge, wanted to lift the embargo without a change in behavior by Cuba.


Please don't limit your hypocrisy to Cuba, Brandon.


Quote:
We may trade or not trade with whom we please.


What you're saying is the US should not be forced to trade with anyone. Is that correct?

1. What hypocrisy? When did I say one thing, but do another?
2. Correct. We may trade with whom we please.

Oh, by the way, what grand conspiracy by the US were you referring to? You seem very frightened to answer this, since I have now asked several times and you have done nothing but lay down a series of distractions to avoid answering.
Mame
 
  6  
Sat 6 Jul, 2013 04:05 pm
@JTT,
I have never attacked the substance of your threads, JTT. I have complained about your repetitive posts on the same things (water dripping on a stone), for sure, and for your tone, but NEVER about the substance. I have always agreed with your comments. I do think you might, in light of the reception you've gotten, have found a more effective way of enlightening people, especially since you seem to be bright.

I started reading about the US in Chile and Latin America in the mid-eighties and I was horrified then and they've only gotten worse. If you ever figure out something EFFECTIVE that you can do, let me know and I'm on board.
JTT
 
  -1  
Sat 6 Jul, 2013 04:16 pm
@Brandon9000,
Quote:
1. What hypocrisy? When did I say one thing, but do another?


You've completely ignored China and Vietnam. You almost certainly daily buy products from both countries and even you are as "pure a patriot" as you pretend, some 300+ million Americans buy from those two communist countries.

Quote:
2. Correct. We may trade with whom we please.


Have you ever heard of the Black ships? Have you ever heard of "gunboat diplomacy"?

Do you not know that the US has invaded countries at least 200 times to force those countries to the will of the US, which, for the most part, hasn't been to simply to force trade. It has been done to steal the wealth of those countries by sticking in the US's dictator du jour.

That is what the US did to Cuba for many many years, 1898 to 1959[?] turning Cuba into a US mobsters' private Las Vegas and the people into slaves and prostitutes.

Until Castro threw out the US criminals and offered to his people hope, decency, education that is world renowned, a medical system that is to many and posibly could and would be the envy of the world if the US didn't use it gunboat diplomacy to prevent Cuba from being all that it could be.

Do you have any idea what lengths the US went to to punish Vietnam for only wanting the same thing y'all love to brag about obtaining from the evil Brits?
JTT
 
  0  
Sat 6 Jul, 2013 04:18 pm
@Mame,
You're doing it as we speak, Mame, educating Brandon and Osso and whoever else listens.

So, am I in as Calgary's new mayor?
ossobuco
 
  2  
Sat 6 Jul, 2013 04:18 pm
@Mame,
And I started earlier and I hate being lectured to by a rant screaming person without sense.

Why do all of you feed this guy? Over and over and over?
Mame
 
  3  
Sat 6 Jul, 2013 04:24 pm
@JTT,
Well, you'd have a hard time beating Naheed Nenshi Smile He's a down-home kind of guy that seems to have garnered the interest and respect of people at home and abroad.

And I don't believe we're educating Brandon! Smile If he read what you and I cut and pasted, he'd close his mind and just come up with more arguments. C'est la vie. There must be a better way. More universal, less confrontational.
JTT
 
  0  
Sat 6 Jul, 2013 04:28 pm
@ossobuco,
Quote:
And I started earlier


And stopped sooner.

Quote:
Why do all of you feed this guy? Over and over and over?


Possibly, because they are interested in the truth, Osso.

Or maybe they feel that this fundamental principle, described by

Quote:
"Supreme Court Associate Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. in United States v. Schwimmer. Holmes wrote that "if there is any principle of the Constitution that more imperatively calls for attachment than any other, it is the principle of free thought—not free thought for those who agree with us but freedom for the thought that we hate."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_for_the_Thought_That_We_Hate


is something that ought to be cherished as fundamental to the American way.

How do you feel about what Holmes had to say?

Do you think that this would be a discussion you would like to have with Farmerman and CI?
0 Replies
 
Mame
 
  3  
Sat 6 Jul, 2013 04:30 pm
@ossobuco,
Osso, baby... if you take away the ranting and screaming, which hasn't been my experience (see above for my complaints), you have to look at the facts. That's why I listen. Because he's right. Isn't the substance more important than the delivery? Although, as I said to him, the delivery is important, too. His delivery is turning people off, when it could actually be helping.
JPB
 
  2  
Sat 6 Jul, 2013 04:35 pm
@ossobuco,
I don't know "who" and "all" are in this post, but your determination to ignore JTT is personal and private. You're as welcome to ignore those who interact with him as you are to make this post. If you want the discussion here to denigrate down into who talks to whom and who pollutes your screen with what you've determined to be ranting screams then that's what your experience will be. Scroll the troll has always been an option.
JTT
 
  0  
Sat 6 Jul, 2013 04:35 pm
@Mame,
Quote:
He's a down-home kind of guy that seems to have garnered the interest and respect of people at home and abroad.


And he doesn't mince words, from what I've read and heard.

Quote:
And I don't believe we're educating Brandon! If he read what you and I cut and pasted, he'd close his mind and just come up with more arguments. C'est la vie.


Forgive me for not having taken your advice immediately to heart - Brandon's arguments have holes big enough to drive a Winnebago thru.

Quote:
There must be a better way. More universal, less confrontational.


That's what I gave him with the last post. They're called facts, which no one can deny, all they can do is ignore. This 'ignoring', you must allow, is rampant not only here at A2K, but much more generally.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  0  
Sat 6 Jul, 2013 04:36 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Quote:
1. What hypocrisy? When did I say one thing, but do another?


You've completely ignored China and Vietnam. You almost certainly daily buy products from both countries and even you are as "pure a patriot" as you pretend, some 300+ million Americans buy from those two communist countries.

I don't like the fact that China and Vietnam are Communist dictatorships either. With Cuba, the combination of being a Communist dictatorship, being an accessory to the pointing of nuclear missiles at us right off our shores, executing political prisoners, etc. makes them a government I don't like. I'm also not thrilled that a government I dislike a lot is very close. It is sufficient for me to approve of an embargo. Are there other governments I dislike as much that we don't embargo? Sure, but I don't face the choice of embargoing every country in the world I dislike or none. Embargoing several but not all is fine with me.
JTT wrote:
Quote:
2. Correct. We may trade with whom we please.


Have you ever heard of the Black ships? Have you ever heard of "gunboat diplomacy"?

Do you not know that the US has invaded countries at least 200 times to force those countries to the will of the US, which, for the most part, hasn't been to simply to force trade. It has been done to steal the wealth of those countries by sticking in the US's dictator du jour.

That is what the US did to Cuba for many many years, 1898 to 1959[?] turning Cuba into a US mobsters' private Las Vegas and the people into slaves and prostitutes.

Until Castro threw out the US criminals and offered to his people hope, decency, education that is world renowned, a medical system that is to many and posibly could and would be the envy of the world if the US didn't use it gunboat diplomacy to prevent Cuba from being all that it could be.

Do you have any idea what lengths the US went to to punish Vietnam for only wanting the same thing y'all love to brag about obtaining from the evil Brits?

Making vague allusions to a multitude of other subjects is not an argument about this subject. You have done nothing to negate my idea that we don't have to trade with bad governments if we don't want to.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Sat 6 Jul, 2013 04:49 pm
@Mame,
The ranting and screaming has been my experience for nearly forever. Years and years of him or her at a2k.
Glad you got to miss it.

How do you think I - and many of us - feel, persons of concerns that we can cite, to be somehow represented by a ******* hyena?

0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Sat 6 Jul, 2013 04:57 pm
@JPB,
Ah well. Climb in bed with him now after many many years of his posts. You see light.

In the meantime, look up all his posts forever. Oh, go ahead, do that.

I get it that I can scroll the troll.





Mame
 
  2  
Sat 6 Jul, 2013 05:06 pm
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:


I don't like the fact that China and Vietnam are Communist dictatorships either. With Cuba, the combination of being a Communist dictatorship, being an accessory to the pointing of nuclear missiles at us right off our shores, executing political prisoners, etc. makes them a government I don't like. I'm also not thrilled that a government I dislike a lot is very close. It is sufficient for me to approve of an embargo. Are there other governments I dislike as much that we don't embargo? Sure, but I don't face the choice of embargoing every country in the world I dislike or none. Embargoing several but not all is fine with me.


You are sadly out of date. Cuba has instituted some new legislation that allows more for its countrymen than it did before. It's collecting taxes now, allowing private enterprise, etc. Read about it and you'll learn if you have your eyes open. This embargo is nothing short of stupid. I was there last year and spoke with many Cubans - there is US investment there and has been for a long time. What about that???

The missiles were 50 years ago for God's sake! How long is your grudge? They agreed within 2 or 3 days to direct them at Russia and then dismantle them, and it wasn't about Cuba, it was about Russia! You really need to do some reading, bubba.

Methinks your middle name is McCarthy.
JPB
 
  2  
Sat 6 Jul, 2013 05:07 pm
@Brandon9000,
I have to reply to this.

I don't like the way Communist governments behaved then or now either. I also don't much like the way Capitalist governments have behaved. I'm a product of the Cold War. I assume you grew up in that era too. I vividly recall diving under my desk every Tuesday as an 8 year old as part of a procedure that would save me and my family from the certain doom that was impending on my small home town. There was also an opportunity to buy/build an underground bunker should the Big One come at some time other than Tuesday morning at 10:00am. Funny (not) we still have practice civil defense drills on the first Tuesday at 10:00am here in the midwest. I assume it occurs everywhere.

I also grew up in an era when my television and movie experience portrayed the German and Japanese people as either evil or buffoons (Hogan's Heroes, anyone?). This was well after the end of WWII, but it was nightly fodder on the family TV.

Between the news, the paranoia of the Cold War, and the "entertainment" of the era it's no wonder that many of today's adults in the US are still as paranoid about Communists and Communism (or the modern day "axis of evil" as we were when we were children.

Brandon, I take exception to your statement that the US government serves at the peoples' will. That may have been the case in days past, but the power of the incumbency, party politics, gerrrymandered districts, and (to me) the clear corruption of all three branches of our government has caused me to stand up and take notice of a new (current) reality.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Sat 6 Jul, 2013 05:11 pm
@JPB,
Yes to that except I was born earlier.
 

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