Snowdon is a dummy

@Olivier5,

Quote:

In other words, killing unarmed women and children at point blank is okay for the US army.

Interesting claim now link to proof that the story given have a solid connection to the real world as the US army have a history of court marshalling soldiers for far far far less misdeeds.

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@BillRM,

Well Bill--they like Courts Martial you know. As long as no feathers are ruffled higher up. And even then there are attractions.

I don't have time to go into the details of why they are so much fun. All you need do is think about it for a bit longer than you are used to thinking about things.

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@BillRM,

Link to proof? Check out Wikipedia for "Haditha" if you don't believe me.

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@JTT,

Hey JTT--if you are able to access it you might check out on BBC2's i-player Paxman interviewing Russell Brand on Newsnight. It's about half way.

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@spendius,

I watched Newsnight, right up until Russell Brand came on. He's the most pretentious twat on the planet, and I don't give a **** what he has to say.

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@izzythepush,

I was not advising you izz.

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@Olivier5,

It your claim so it is your duty to provide backing and just going by the history of the US military jumping onto such claims I question how true it might be or at least what bits of information is being let out.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Okay, here's the link. This made the news big time, I'm surprised you never heard of it.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haditha_killings

And it's not the only case. The Abu Ghaib scandal was whitewashed too, as was this case:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavalese_cable_car_disaster_(1998)

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@Olivier5,

By your own links it was look into in detail by the US military and in the fog of war innocent men and women and even children do get killed and that go even more so in a conflict where one side tend to use civilians as shields.

Quote:

one sergeant testified that he would order his men to shoot vehicles that failed to stop at military checkpoints even if it were possible that children could be in the car.

Of course you would fired on cars that does not stop as order given the use of car bombs. Since 911 the US had been willing to shoot down our own airliners full with hundreds of innocent men women and children if need be over our own territory so why the hell should in a war zone vehicles that might contain car bombs not be shot at children or no children in them?

Our troops need protection from people looking to play political games using so call international courts concerning the hard things that need to be done in a war zone

Quote:

By June 17, 2008, six defendants had had their cases dropped and a seventh found not guilty.[11] The exception was former Staff Sgt Frank Wuterich. On October 3, 2007, the Article 32 hearing investigating officer recommended that Wuterich be tried for negligent homicide in the deaths of two women and five children, and that charges of murder be dropped.[12] Further charges of assault and manslaughter were ultimately dropped, and Wuterich was convicted of a single count of negligent dereliction of duty on January 24, 2012.[13][14] Wuterich received a rank reduction and pay cut but avoided jail time.[15][16] Iraqis expressed disbelief and voiced outrage after the six-year US military prosecution ended with none of the Marines sentenced to jail. A lawyer for the victims from Haditha said, "This is an assault on humanity." and he as well as the Iraqi government said they might bring the case to international courts.[17]

In 2011 the New York Times found classified transcripts of military interviews from an investigation into the Haditha killings. In these interviews Marines said so many civilians were found dead after being killed by unknown factions in the Iraq conflict that civilian deaths seemed routine, and one sergeant testified that he would order his men to shoot vehicles that failed to stop at military checkpoints even if it were possible that children could be in the car.[18]

Events

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Oh gime a break! Haditha was a nicely whitewashed war crimes, and nothing less.

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@Olivier5,

Quote:

Oh gime a break! Haditha was a nicely whitewashed war crimes, and nothing less.

That kind of silliness is why we can never put our troops at risk of a so call international court.

Sorry we will police our own and if the rest of the world does not like it that is just too damn bad.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

You will not police your own, that is.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Quote:

You will not police your own, that is.

Oh? if you mean we will not hang our own service men and women to make people like you happy you are right.

We have however a not bad if not perfect record of taking actions against our own that have step over the line.

In any case, it is a dead letter as no American government is going to allow our troops to be judge by anyone but ourselves.

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavalese_cable_car_disaster_(1998)

You have no idea how much staring at pictures of that blood-soaked snow helped me cope during the darkest days of your malevolent persecution of Amanda Knox.

(Fixed your link.)

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@BillRM,

Quote:

We have however a not bad if not perfect record of taking actions against our own that have step over the line.

Profound ignorance or bald faced lie. The results are the same.

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@BillRM,

Whatever.

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Back to Snowden and the idea that the NSA has monitored Merkel's phone calls since years.

The papers here commend broadly about the White House's language when denying it.

But even if the suspicion proves false, she now seems likely to take the issue more seriously than before: she, and the government, have belittled the Snowden affair. Now it's clear she no longer takes the matter lightly.
As a former East German citizen who grew up in a dictatorship, her distrust of the intelligence agencies is likely to grow.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

the east german experience is huge for sure. I have heard no one say this but I can see a path for the Snowden revaluations eventually leading to the end of nato and the expulsion of US troops.I think we might see germans going to their government asking " why are these creeps still here?" and there being no good response.

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@hawkeye10,

No, I don't think so.

But generally, the Americans have lost a lot of trust.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

But generally, the Americans have lost a lot of trust.

Scanning through the papers, you can see the immense reputational damage by the various reactions in different countries.

"With allies like these, who needs enemies?"

The monitoring by the United States to “French diplomatic interests” at the United Nations and in Washington hadn't been denied on Monday, now this.

According to several sources, Merkel's official cellphone had been the target, not her private. For safety reason's? Merkel a terrorist? The German government a potential danger for US-Citizens?

2 Replies

Snowdon is a dummy

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