Snowdon is a dummy

@Frank Apisa,

You're dreaming, Frank.

The 54 cases comes from the number that the NSA was touting back in June while your poll was being taken. It's THEIR number, provided to Congress earlier this summer.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Huh?

We simply do not know that the spying has not stopped any intended attacks.

The intelligence community may not be willing to let that kind of information out...and may have intentionally put phony cases before the congress.

Yeah...they lied. They may still be lying.

That, ci, is what I expect of our intelligence community...or it wouldn't be much of an intelligence community.

1 Reply

@JPB,

JPB wrote:

You're dreaming, Frank.

The 54 cases comes from the number that the NSA was touting back in June while your poll was being taken. It's THEIR number, provided to Congress earlier this summer.

JPB...do you have numbers that contradict the numbers I offered?

Is there another poll that shows more people want to award Snowden a medal than who want to see him tried on charges which have been brought by the government?

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Oh my god, Frank.

Step back, take a breath and read what you're advocating. You want us to continue to spend billions of dollars a year collecting private information of every citizen because the spooks could be lying to congress?

2 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

You asked me for a movie we could discuss. I provided one.

You asked me what I wished to discuss about it. I told you.

Where's your discussion point?

What's the use of a "fair trial" anyway.

Are you in favour of bail for Snowden if he gives himself up? You know he would get the Manning treatment which the public had to shame the authorities into ameliorating.

How about a trial in absentia? It's been done. I think eveyrbody who takes an interest in the matter knows that a "fair trial" = a long stretch.

The authorities could not risk a not guilty verdict and even on your out-of-date poll a jury splitting 54--38 is a not guilty verdict.

I have not posted a list of the questions you have failed to answer because it would be insulting to the intelligence of others here to think they hadn't noticed.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Here's an interesting breakout by age in September on patriot/traitor.

http://cloudfront-media.reason.com/mc/eekins/2013_09/snowden/Snowden2.jpg?h=352&w=250

3 Replies

@JPB,

JPB wrote:

Oh my god, Frank.

Step back, take a breath and read what you're advocating. You want us to continue to spend billions of dollars a year collecting private information of every citizen because the spooks could be lying to congress?

JPB...if you want to trivialize what I have been discussing with you...feel free to do so.

I have tried to be reasonable...and to present my opinions reasonably.

0 Replies

@JPB,

JPB wrote:

You want us to continue to spend billions of dollars a year collecting private information of every citizen because the spooks could be lying to congress?

Actually, because the spooks "may simply not want to compound the damage done by the Snowden revelations". Wink

0 Replies

@spendius,

spendius wrote:

You asked me for a movie we could discuss. I provided one.

You asked me what I wished to discuss about it. I told you.

Where's your discussion point?

I asked you if there were any scenes from the movie that moved you in a way that you would like to share with us, Spendius.

It is a very old movie...and like I said, I have never seen it.

But since you mentioned it in response to my query of : Have you seen any good movies lately?...I thought it worthwhile to pursue.

So...what was there about the movie that you thought to be exceptional?

1 Reply

@JPB,

As a 78 year old American, I consider Snowden to be one of the most important Patriot of our times.

2 Replies

@JPB,

... and out of all - according to the same poll - as many say that he is a traitor as that he is a hero.

1 Reply

@JPB,

JPB wrote:

Here's an interesting breakout by age in September on patriot/traitor.

I am 77...and I do not think he is a traitor. (I have mentioned that several times in this forum.)

I think the espionage charge is a step too far...and I think it should be eliminated. But that is not my call.

In any case, there are charges short of "traitor" or "espionage" that seem to be illegal conduct on Snowden's part.

He should be tried on those charges.

And the trial should be a fair trial.

0 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

As a 78 year old American, I consider Snowden to be one of the most important Patriot of our times.

Fine. I have no problem with that. I certainly would not beat up on your for having that opinion.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

... and out of all - according to the same poll - as many say that he is a traitor as that he is a hero.

Just wanted to take this opportunity to say again that I do not think of him as a traitor...and most assuredly do not think of him as a hero.

He is a guy who did something for reasons that are not at all clear.

My personal thoughts are that he did MUCH more damage than good by doing what he has done.

But I could be wrong...very wrong.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

He is a guy who did something for reasons that are not at all clear.

Whatever his motivation to reveal what he did, the outcome was the correct one - for all citizens who believes in 'privacy' against government intrusion.

2 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

But you have the anonymity of the Internet to allow you to continue to call me a liar.

I just say it as I see it. I don't care for hypocrisy, and would say it in your face too.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

The intelligence community may simply not want to compound the damage done by the Snowden revelations.

Not doing a particularly good job is it?

You're giving a version of Freud's assertions that men have a homosexual component and the more they deny that they have the larger it is and the denials are a sign of repression of it. And thus neurosis which Freud fixed up in his clinic at $300 an hour (at today's prices in funny money)

The same argument is applied to enthusiastic declarations of being "free". That the more they shout about being free the more the constraints are pressing in on them.

Nice "may not" eh? As good as the "CAN". Playground ****.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Quote:
He is a guy who did something for reasons that are not at all clear.

Whatever his motivation to reveal what he did, the outcome was the correct one - for all citizens who believes in 'privacy' against government intrusion.

That is your opinion...and I support your right to have it.

I am of a different opinion. I think the "outcome" has more in the way of negatives than positives...and I remind you that the decision to share secret government information was not Snowden's to make.

It appears to be illegal.

Charges relating to it have been brought...and he should be tried.

If convicted, he should be punished; if exonerated, he should be released.

0 Replies

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
But you have the anonymity of the Internet to allow you to continue to call me a liar.

I just say it as I see it. I don't care for hypocrisy, and would say it in your face too.

Yeah...well, I guess we cannot find that out, because you do not even have the guts to use your real name...or to give any information on your profile segment.

1 Reply

@spendius,

spendius wrote:

Quote:
The intelligence community may simply not want to compound the damage done by the Snowden revelations.

Not doing a particularly good job is it?

You're giving a version of Freud's assertions that men have a homosexual component and the more they deny that they have the larger it is and the denials are a sign of repression of it. And thus neurosis which Freud fixed up in his clinic at $300 an hour (at today's prices in funny money)

The same argument is applied to enthusiastic declarations of being "free". That the more they shout about being free the more the constraints are pressing in on them.

Nice "may not" eh? As good as the "CAN". Playground ****.

So about that movie, Spendius...when did you last view it?

0 Replies

Snowdon is a dummy

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