42
   

Snowdon is a dummy

 
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Thu 22 Aug, 2013 10:07 am
@revelette,
Quote:
On the larger main part, I get it, we do have an extremely large NSA program which obviously needs better oversight and general overhaul.


Defunding roughly 80 percents of NSA budget would be about right to limit them to their mission of gathering foreign intelligence and preventing them from maintaining the infrastructure to do mass spying on the American people.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Thu 22 Aug, 2013 10:08 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
How much further will Americans allow this administration, congress, and the supreme court to override the protections guaranteed by our Constitution?


It's deja vu all over again, CI.

"... government by the sheeple, for the sheeple, by the sheeple, ... "
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Thu 22 Aug, 2013 10:19 am
@cicerone imposter,
You often mention how "boring" it is to hear about the crimes of US governments, but really what else can you say about them.

It's like trying to find something nice to say about Al Capone or John Gotti, or Adolph Hilter. Have you noticed that people don't seem to discuss their trips to church or their kids' birthday parties.?
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Thu 22 Aug, 2013 10:24 am
@revelette,
trying to find a link to what I was reading yesterday but the stream is far and wide. I'll bring it here if I trip over it again.
Thomas
 
  2  
Thu 22 Aug, 2013 10:36 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
At some point, we have to accept that the people we have elected to lead us...are leading us. And when they are leading us to where we do not want to go...we vote them out.

That's fine with me in principle. But to make this process work in practice, we the people need to know where our representatives, executives, and judges are leading us. At the moment, they're keeping secret, by punishment of decades in prison, key places where they are leading us. As long as this continues, we don't know what we need to know to judge their performance, and the process you rightly advocate won't work in practice.
JTT
 
  1  
Thu 22 Aug, 2013 10:45 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
But who is going to oversee the overseers...and then who is going to oversee that group?

Do you see that it is an endless circle of distrust.


You really don't have much of a grasp of how the US system of government was supposed to work, do you?

This only happens, which is way too often for you guys, when the existing US "government" wants to kill more innocents on your dime, Frank. You seem to be more than content with that.

0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Thu 22 Aug, 2013 10:47 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
At some point, we have to accept that the people we have elected to lead us...are leading us. And when they are leading us to where we do not want to go...we vote them out.


We can't vote out the heads of any of the companies listed on the NYSC. Regardless of who is in power, the rich guys stay rich, and they give money to both sides, so whoever gets in owes them a favour.
revelette
 
  3  
Thu 22 Aug, 2013 10:48 am
@JPB,
I guess what was discontinued was the problem, not sure why that previous article said the program was discontinued.

Quote:
Still, Bates noted that it was not until May 2011 — several years after Section 702 was approved — that the NSA told the court that its upstream collection of Internet communications may contain entire Internet “transactions” not related to the target. In other words, the agency may be collecting e-mails between two Americans or people inside the United States in violation of FISA.

In June 2011, the NSA informed Bates that an Internet transaction may be a single communication or it may include “multiple discrete communications,” including those that are not to, from or about a target. That means instead of one e-mail, a string of Americans’ e-mails could be inadvertently picked up. “That revelation fundamentally alters the Court’s understanding of the scope of the collection conducted pursuant to Section 702,” Bates said.

“By expanding its Section 702 acquisitions to include the acquisition of Internet transactions through its upstream collection, NSA has, as a practical matter, circumvented the spirit of [the law],” Bates wrote. “NSA’s knowing acquisition of tens of thousands of wholly domestic communications through its upstream collection is a cause of concern for the court.”

He ordered the collection to stop until the NSA could propose an acceptable remedy. In November 2011, Bates signed an order approving the fix, which included a new technical means to segregate transactions most likely to contain U.S. persons’ communications and reducing the retention period from five to two years.

source

0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Thu 22 Aug, 2013 11:04 am
Quote:
Theresa May attacked for comments on critics of David Miranda's detention

Ex-director of public prosecutions speaks out after home office say opponents of Miranda's detention are 'condoning terrorism'

Theresa May has been accused, by a former director of public prosecutions, of an "extremely ugly and unhelpful" attempt to implicate opponents of David Miranda's detention of condoning terrorism.

Lord Macdonald, of River Glaven, criticised the home secretary after the home office said people who opposed the decision of the Metropolitan Police to detain Miranda at Heathrow needed to "think about what they are condoning".

The former DPP told The World at One on Radio 4: "That is a rather ugly argument. To suggest that people who are concerned about the use of a power of this sort against journalists are condoning terrorism, which seems to be the implication of that remark, is an extremely ugly and unhelpful sentiment.

"People who are concerned about these issues are not condoning terrorism. They are asking a perfectly legitimate question, which is: are we striking the balance in the right place between security and liberty?

He added: "Let's wait and see what the independent review of this episode has to say before we start accusing people of condoning terrorism and nonsense of that sort."

The intervention by Macdonald, a Liberal Democrat peer, highlights growing tensions within the coalition over the nine-hour detention of Miranda, the partner of the Guardian journalist Glenn Greenwald who has run a series of stories on the basis of secret NSA documents leaked by the whistleblower Edward Snowden. ... ... ...
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Thu 22 Aug, 2013 11:08 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

So he is saying that our government should set up a system where people planning to destroy our country can have safe communications withing their network?

Wow!

He oughta be able to sell that.
I didn't notice that he said such. But if "legislative mandate" means such, you're correct.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Thu 22 Aug, 2013 12:37 pm
@JPB,
JPB wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

At some point, we have to accept that the people we have elected to lead us...are leading us. And when they are leading us to where we do not want to go...we vote them out.


We do that until such time as we are given sufficient evidence that our trust has been misplaced. As you say, we're all human and humans have motives that are not always altruistic. I have a long list of things that I believe contribute to how we got to today's current reality, but the fact is the current reality is unacceptable to me and many people who believe that the constitution and the people's well-being has been usurped by those entrusted to its care.


Okay, JPB...but if the Constitution means so much to you and those other people...you must be aware of the method the Constitution sets out for handling your discontent...which mostly involves what I suggested...voting people out and electing new people.

You could try the impeach everyone...but considering how the Constitution handles that...there will be too much difficulty taking that route.

For me...I am tired of people dumping on "the government" as much as some people do. The people elected, subject to the human limitations we both recognize, JPB, are doing a decent job of handling an incredibly complex society.

You think you can do better...do the things necessary to get elected...and do better.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Thu 22 Aug, 2013 12:38 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

Some would prefer the former.


The rich guys who run the world.


I'm not rich...I do not run the world. I think the elected officials of this country are doing as decent a job as can be done...and the Monday morning quarterbacking is old news.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Thu 22 Aug, 2013 12:40 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
At some point, we have to accept that the people we have elected to lead us...are leading us. And when they are leading us to where we do not want to go...we vote them out.

That's fine with me in principle. But to make this process work in practice, we the people need to know where our representatives, executives, and judges are leading us. At the moment, they're keeping secret, by punishment of decades in prison, key places where they are leading us. As long as this continues, we don't know what we need to know to judge their performance, and the process you rightly advocate won't work in practice.


Then THAT is where they are leading us, Thomas. Towards more secrecy...and toward some stuff that we once thought unimaginable.

But my guess is that if I were one of them...I would be on this particular train. It seems necessary to me right now.

So...for you to think we do not know just doesn't c0mpute.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Thu 22 Aug, 2013 12:44 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
At some point, we have to accept that the people we have elected to lead us...are leading us. And when they are leading us to where we do not want to go...we vote them out.


We can't vote out the heads of any of the companies listed on the NYSC. Regardless of who is in power, the rich guys stay rich, and they give money to both sides, so whoever gets in owes them a favour.


That kind of thinking is going nowhere. If you think there honestly is a cabal of rich people who are pulling the strings...then you are either right or wrong.

If you are wrong...you really ought to stop thinking that way.

If you are right...there ain't nothing you can do about it.

Try considering that you are going for the dramatic...and that you are essentially wrong.

(The rich will always be exerting more power than the poor! ALWAYS!

A L W A Y S ! ! ! !

If your plan is to change that...I would suggest you first work on stopping earthquakes and hurricanes. They are more pressing problems...and they are easier to handle than the former.)
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Thu 22 Aug, 2013 12:46 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

So he is saying that our government should set up a system where people planning to destroy our country can have safe communications withing their network?

Wow!

He oughta be able to sell that.
I didn't notice that he said such. But if "legislative mandate" means such, you're correct.


Well...the essence of what was said was that he wanted a communications network that the government would not be able to monitor in any way...to make communications between parties completely safe and private from the government.

How else can that be interpreted except that our government should set up a system where people planning to destroy our country can have safe communications withing their network?

engineer
 
  2  
Thu 22 Aug, 2013 12:47 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

At some point, we have to accept that the people we have elected to lead us...are leading us. And when they are leading us to where we do not want to go...we vote them out.

But the only way you know enough to vote them out is if there is some level of transparency. If the electorate is held ignorant of what their officials are doing, they have no way to effectively judge their performance.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Thu 22 Aug, 2013 12:48 pm
@engineer,
engineer wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

At some point, we have to accept that the people we have elected to lead us...are leading us. And when they are leading us to where we do not want to go...we vote them out.

But the only way you know enough to vote them out is if there is some level of transparency. If the electorate is held ignorant of what their officials are doing, they have no way to effectively judge their performance.


Please read my response to Thomas above.

If one of the gripes you have with them is that they are not allowing enough transparancy for you and our enemies...vote 'em out.

That is more than enough information.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Thu 22 Aug, 2013 12:53 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

Well...the essence of what was said was that he wanted a communications network that the government would not be able to monitor in any way...to make communications between parties completely safe and private from the government.

How else can that be interpreted except that our government should set up a system where people planning to destroy our country can have safe communications withing their network?


Hmm. So you think that sending letters in envelopes is evil?
The USPS should only transport postcards?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Thu 22 Aug, 2013 12:58 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

Well...the essence of what was said was that he wanted a communications network that the government would not be able to monitor in any way...to make communications between parties completely safe and private from the government.

How else can that be interpreted except that our government should set up a system where people planning to destroy our country can have safe communications withing their network?


Hmm. So you think that sending letters in envelopes is evil?
The USPS should only transport postcards?


I have no idea of what you are saying here, Walter. I have not classified anything as evil at all.
BillRM
 
  1  
Thu 22 Aug, 2013 01:07 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
Hmm. So you think that sending letters in envelopes is evil?
The USPS should only transport postcards?


Open offer to help set up communication links that can not be tap or trace by either the NSA or GCHQ.

The spying is only good for the population as a whole not anyone that will take the time to set up freely available software solutions.

Fighting terrorism is an excused to do mass spying and that all it is.
 

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